That's probably a big part of it. I've owned dozens of 357's and almost never shoot 357 ammo in them. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting a Model 15 or a Model 19, I can pick up the same ammo for them. I'm just punching holes in paper or making a can jump around 99.999% of the time anyway.
.38 special popularity
- Thread starter ZVP
- Start date
That's probably a big part of it. I've owned dozens of 357's and almost never shoot 357 ammo in them. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting a Model 15 or a Model 19, I can pick up the same ammo for them. I'm just punching holes in paper or making a can jump around 99.999% of the time anyway.
I'm doing amo trsting and general shootability tests with my .357, 4 5/8" Ruger Vaquero
I bought the revolver because Ihave always been a fan of the SA and to tell the truth all but 4 of my handguns are SA's and always have been. It just worked out that way and even as entrenched as I am in this and the last century, my guns have been Single Actions. They feel "natural" to me!
Back to the ammo tests. I bought the Vaquero with intentions of shooting the potent .357 for defense and mainly shooting the .38 Special for fun and the economy of it.
One day I got to wondering about the difference between the +P and a regular .38 Special? I had never shot a +P so I decided to try a couple boxes through the Ruger and compare them to the .357 for accuracy and felt recoil. The Ruger is heavy enough that even potent .357's don't recoil heavilly and the revolver is quite controlable.
\ Last week I ran inital tests and was suprised by the recoil of the hot 125 gr bullets! They kicked much harder than standard .38 Specials in the Vaquero. Somewhere around 45% as much as a full house .357 does1
I couldn't truely evaluate the accuracy because I was firing my newly aquired Model 10S&W previously and still had the "New Gun Shakes" from it. However my groups were larger with the +P ammo but who can say it was a fair test?
I did decide thatthe +P would make a fine subistitute for the .357 as a "Trail Load" carried afield instead of the ultra loud, full magnums. In all but dangerous game areas, it would make a fine load to use!
I plan further testing to justify my hunch about the +p.
I am shooting both the Magtech+P Guardian ammo and the Remington Golden Sabers (not yet accuracy tested).
I have been advised that both my steel framed Model 36 and Model 10 will handle +P ammo but to prevent any chance of harm to either, I will only shoot standard .38's through them.
BPDave
I bought the revolver because Ihave always been a fan of the SA and to tell the truth all but 4 of my handguns are SA's and always have been. It just worked out that way and even as entrenched as I am in this and the last century, my guns have been Single Actions. They feel "natural" to me!
Back to the ammo tests. I bought the Vaquero with intentions of shooting the potent .357 for defense and mainly shooting the .38 Special for fun and the economy of it.
One day I got to wondering about the difference between the +P and a regular .38 Special? I had never shot a +P so I decided to try a couple boxes through the Ruger and compare them to the .357 for accuracy and felt recoil. The Ruger is heavy enough that even potent .357's don't recoil heavilly and the revolver is quite controlable.
\ Last week I ran inital tests and was suprised by the recoil of the hot 125 gr bullets! They kicked much harder than standard .38 Specials in the Vaquero. Somewhere around 45% as much as a full house .357 does1
I couldn't truely evaluate the accuracy because I was firing my newly aquired Model 10S&W previously and still had the "New Gun Shakes" from it. However my groups were larger with the +P ammo but who can say it was a fair test?
I did decide thatthe +P would make a fine subistitute for the .357 as a "Trail Load" carried afield instead of the ultra loud, full magnums. In all but dangerous game areas, it would make a fine load to use!
I plan further testing to justify my hunch about the +p.
I am shooting both the Magtech+P Guardian ammo and the Remington Golden Sabers (not yet accuracy tested).
I have been advised that both my steel framed Model 36 and Model 10 will handle +P ammo but to prevent any chance of harm to either, I will only shoot standard .38's through them.
BPDave
Crankgrinder
New member
"As far as 158gr .38 specials, they just don't reach high enough speeds out of a snub to reliably expand compared to 125gr offerings when using HP ammunition, especially when fired out of a 1 7/8" barrel."
those 158 lswchp have been killing people for an awfully long time and they arent about to quit anytime soon. They have been shown to reliably expand in such situations due to the fact that theres no copper jacket to peel back. Have you looked at offerings by buffalo bore?
those 158 lswchp have been killing people for an awfully long time and they arent about to quit anytime soon. They have been shown to reliably expand in such situations due to the fact that theres no copper jacket to peel back. Have you looked at offerings by buffalo bore?
huskybiker
New member
I love my M&P's, but I'm totally confident in carrying my Taurus 650 loaded with 125gr +p ammo.
jhvaughan2
New member
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Whether the 38 special is "enough" for self defence is an absurd question that comes from too much time on the internet. The factor that outweighs all others for whether your firearm is "good enough" is if you have it when you need it.
The only place a .38 special will not kill someone is on the internet.
Whether the 38 special is "enough" for self defence is an absurd question that comes from too much time on the internet. The factor that outweighs all others for whether your firearm is "good enough" is if you have it when you need it.
- The odds of needing it are very very low.
- The odds that your attacker will be hyped up on military secret performance enhancing drugs, and wearing body armor is very low of the above very low.
- The odds of needing to legally shoot through a door, car, wall, or at a distance greater than 7 yards is very low of the above very low.
- The odds of getting struck by lightning is far greater than you needing more than a handy .38. So if you want to really protect yourself -- stay indoors.
The only place a .38 special will not kill someone is on the internet.
keninnavarre
Inactive
I carry my .38 S&W model 38 Airweight more often than my LCP. I shoot it better than the LCP and with .158+p SWC ammo I have no doubt penetration, which in my opinion is more important than expansion in a pocket sized handgun, would excede that of any ammo I could stuff into the LCP.
With that being said, there are quite a few 9mm and even .45 ACP pocket sized pistols available in todays market that make the .38 versus .380 pocket pistol comparison a moot point.
I carry my revolver more often than my autos strictly because it fits my style of carry and I shoot it better at speed. But its a compromise between power, shootability and concealability IMO. If I belt carry instead of pocket, I carry at minimum a 9mm loaded with , never my .38 snub.
With that being said, there are quite a few 9mm and even .45 ACP pocket sized pistols available in todays market that make the .38 versus .380 pocket pistol comparison a moot point.
I carry my revolver more often than my autos strictly because it fits my style of carry and I shoot it better at speed. But its a compromise between power, shootability and concealability IMO. If I belt carry instead of pocket, I carry at minimum a 9mm loaded with , never my .38 snub.
Beretta686
New member
I couldn't agree more.
It's funny how people will run out and buy the latest new wiz-bang cartridge or gun, just because some gun rag touts its amazing possibilities (as though you've ever read a "professional" gun review that said "Wow, this gun sucks").
I can't count the number of times I've seen people buying way more gun than they need or can handle, just because they read something on the internet about how they needed a .45/10mm/5.7mm/.50AE or whatever to have "real stopping power".
Though it's great for lining gun manufacturers' pockets with $$$ and variety is always nice for someone like me, it's unnecessary for the average person who just wants a defensive piece. As most all of us would be just fine with a .38 Special.
Though I have a massive collection of pistols, every time someone asks me what gun they should get as pistol they're not going to practice much with, I always say a 38/357.
One thing that is almost always overlooked when the age-old debate of 380 or 9mm vs 38 Spl, is the factor of bullet profile.
One huge advantage a 38 has over the auto-loaders (an advantage any revolver round has over semi-auto, actually) is that bullet profile designs need not compromise terminal performance for feeding reliability.
The 38 Special has available bullet profiles (re: hollow points) that are superior in terms of reliable expansion. No, this is not to imply that the semi-auto's have crappy bullet designs - many are quite good. But the 38's are generally more aggressive in their hollow point designs. The 38 wins in the category of reliable bullet expansion.
One huge advantage a 38 has over the auto-loaders (an advantage any revolver round has over semi-auto, actually) is that bullet profile designs need not compromise terminal performance for feeding reliability.
The 38 Special has available bullet profiles (re: hollow points) that are superior in terms of reliable expansion. No, this is not to imply that the semi-auto's have crappy bullet designs - many are quite good. But the 38's are generally more aggressive in their hollow point designs. The 38 wins in the category of reliable bullet expansion.
rice paddy daddy
New member
I like 38 Specials as well. A Colt Police Positive Special will give you 6 rounds in the same size frame as a 5 shot S&W. Mine's a 4" and I put Hogue grips on the old girl.
I have a J-frame 357 that I carry in my pocket and a couple old S&W police trade ins - a Model 10 and a Model 15.
For fun I shoot plain old 158 grain LRN out of a Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top 357 magnum.
Around the farm 148 grain full wadcutters are good for varmints. I imagine they would work on two legged varmints also.
But truth be told, the most often piece in my pocket is a Special as well - 44 Special. 'Cause sometimes bigger IS better.
I have a J-frame 357 that I carry in my pocket and a couple old S&W police trade ins - a Model 10 and a Model 15.
For fun I shoot plain old 158 grain LRN out of a Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top 357 magnum.
Around the farm 148 grain full wadcutters are good for varmints. I imagine they would work on two legged varmints also.
But truth be told, the most often piece in my pocket is a Special as well - 44 Special. 'Cause sometimes bigger IS better.
I've started shooting it a lot.
Part of it is I've been finding revolvers more fun to shoot as of late, and - since I still haven't gotten around to getting set up to reload - anything else would cost a lot more.
I have 2 .357's (sp101, gp100), which I bought in part because .357 is a potent enough to handle most anything in these parts, and because .38spl is so affordable to shoot.
Plus, out of a snub sp101 it has the perfect amount of kick - enough to make you feel like you're shooting a gun, but not so much that you have to limit how many rounds you shoot.
Part of it is I've been finding revolvers more fun to shoot as of late, and - since I still haven't gotten around to getting set up to reload - anything else would cost a lot more.
I have 2 .357's (sp101, gp100), which I bought in part because .357 is a potent enough to handle most anything in these parts, and because .38spl is so affordable to shoot.
Plus, out of a snub sp101 it has the perfect amount of kick - enough to make you feel like you're shooting a gun, but not so much that you have to limit how many rounds you shoot.
Now that 22 ammunition is so hard to come by, I find myself shooting my cast 38 special loads when a few years ago I would have just broken out a 22for a little plinking. Small loss really, somehow I always enjoyed the 38 Special more. With absolute precision placement a 38 Special or for that matter a 22 short is all the cartridge you will ever need for almost anything. People with experience shooting large ugly snarling things, provided they survive the first few encounters will eventually find themselves wondering if just maybe a larger bullet might not offer something more. That said, I often find myself dropping a 38 in my pocket in situations where I can't get by with something bigger, and there is absolutely no doubt that in the hands of a minimally trained shooter he has a better chance of scoring a hit with a 38 than he does with something bigger.
Don't get me wrong. I like the 38 Special, but I like a lot of the other cartridges too.
Don't get me wrong. I like the 38 Special, but I like a lot of the other cartridges too.
First, let me say that today's premium ammo, in all calibers is better than what was common 40 years ago, as far as bullet performance/velocity is concerned. Todays expanding bullets are simply better at expanding than what was available back then. And, what was available back then is still available today, still working as well now, as it did then.
I said that to make a point, now also consider this, 40years ago, while there was a bit of debate, it was generally thought (and written about) that the standard .38 SPL was a better defensive round than the standard 9mm Luger.
This was because of the bullets and loads commonly available. Reliable JHP ammo was, mostly, still in the future. 9mm+p+ only existed in the guns of certain handloaders. Factory auto pistol ammo was almost exclusively FMJ, and revolver ammo was lead bullets.
The simple fact was that a heavier, slower, factory lead bullet often performed better in defensive use than a FMJ. There was usually at least some expansion from the lead slugs, and sometimes pretty good expansion.
Today, the lesser calibers are much better than they used to be. .38 SPL velocities haven't upped much, if any, modern bullet construction is what has improved the .38SPL most.
And not all loadings are the same, nor are the circumstances of firing the same. Currently, you can even get factory ammo tailored for the best performance from short barrels, something that was once only possible from handloads. Way back in those days, it was found that the 200gr LRN .38, fired from a snubnose (2") wouldn't reliably penetrate a regular car windshield. The 158gr LRN, (from a standard 6" police revolver) got nicknamed the "widowmaker" because of its lack luster record in gunfights. And even with all that, the .38SPL was generally thought of as better than the 9mm Luger, because the 9mm only had FMJ bullets, unless you handloaded.
Back then, the .380 was thought to be the absolute bottom level minimum for defensive use, by those who were "serious". Then the 9mm, then the .38 SPL, .45, and .357. Generally (there were, of course a lot of differing opinions).
Today, with modern factory ammo defensive loads, the line is much more blurred (and we still have a lot of differing opinions).
If you think the .380 is a better choice for you, then its a better choice, for you. I wouldn't choose a .380 over a .38 because of the caliber, but might choose one (or a .32acp) because of the gun, in a given situation.
I said that to make a point, now also consider this, 40years ago, while there was a bit of debate, it was generally thought (and written about) that the standard .38 SPL was a better defensive round than the standard 9mm Luger.
This was because of the bullets and loads commonly available. Reliable JHP ammo was, mostly, still in the future. 9mm+p+ only existed in the guns of certain handloaders. Factory auto pistol ammo was almost exclusively FMJ, and revolver ammo was lead bullets.
The simple fact was that a heavier, slower, factory lead bullet often performed better in defensive use than a FMJ. There was usually at least some expansion from the lead slugs, and sometimes pretty good expansion.
Today, the lesser calibers are much better than they used to be. .38 SPL velocities haven't upped much, if any, modern bullet construction is what has improved the .38SPL most.
And not all loadings are the same, nor are the circumstances of firing the same. Currently, you can even get factory ammo tailored for the best performance from short barrels, something that was once only possible from handloads. Way back in those days, it was found that the 200gr LRN .38, fired from a snubnose (2") wouldn't reliably penetrate a regular car windshield. The 158gr LRN, (from a standard 6" police revolver) got nicknamed the "widowmaker" because of its lack luster record in gunfights. And even with all that, the .38SPL was generally thought of as better than the 9mm Luger, because the 9mm only had FMJ bullets, unless you handloaded.
Back then, the .380 was thought to be the absolute bottom level minimum for defensive use, by those who were "serious". Then the 9mm, then the .38 SPL, .45, and .357. Generally (there were, of course a lot of differing opinions).
Today, with modern factory ammo defensive loads, the line is much more blurred (and we still have a lot of differing opinions).
If you think the .380 is a better choice for you, then its a better choice, for you. I wouldn't choose a .380 over a .38 because of the caliber, but might choose one (or a .32acp) because of the gun, in a given situation.
The Snubnoses are the most popular .38Sp revolvers and the most widely sold models. Out here. So the spec's looked for are their performances needed. There's not near the number of 4" in hands or at least lookin for data. The people with 4"ers just are'nt looking to find souled-up loads for their gu s. I am satisfied with the preformance of my Mod 10 4"er. It cooks em off pretty well! o amoften puzzled by my Chief though.
BPDave
BPDave
The older I get, the more I migrate back to revolvers, especially .38 special and .22LR. After about a half million dollars of 9mm , it's time for me to slow it down a bit and take time to smell the roses. Come to think of it, loading up a cylinder of 38 is a whole lot more fun than loading a hi cap magazine anyways.
Nice Tauri badge851.
, it's time for me to slow it down a bit and take time to smell the roses. Come to think of it, loading up a cylinder of 38 is a whole lot more fun than loading a hi cap magazine anyways.Nice Tauri badge851.