.38 Special as good as .45ACP?

Hello all. Yes, I believe it to be essentially true. Only because the "efficient" Plus P .38 load is being compared against the most "inefficient" design for the .45ACP. Once the forty-five gets the expanding bullet, it takes the lead again without question. best.
 
And still a couple more factors in the discussion---

The "Rated" or "Published" factory velocity in many loads is far, FAR different from what is taking place in the real world.

Yup, published performance for the .38 Special, 158 LSWCHP+P is something like 1060 fps. Now try and get that out of YOUR revolver. Just ‘cause it is published, or advertised, or whatever, doesn't mean that's what it's doing from your two-, three- or even four-inch. You'll have a hard time getting 1000 fps velocity from less than a six- inch pressure barrel. If you use a two- or three-inch resolver, I believe you won't get over 830 fps, and maybe even below 800. (It is still far superior to the old standard, 158 LRN at about *published* 780.)

Don't take my word for it--Go out and chronograph some of these loads. You don't have a chronograph? I do--An Oehler model 43 with third-screen check channel. And I've tested a lot of loads. Get with someone who has a chrono and test. It may open your eyes.

Then test some .45 ACP loads--from full length (five-inch) barrels, as well as from the shorter pistols that most people really carry. But there are a lot more five-inch .45s carried on the street than six-inch .38s. The 230 gr. FMJ averages right at 825 fps, across the board— UMC, Rem, Win/USA, etc. Older GI ball and PMC usually go a little hotter. JHP ammo is warmer still--860 to 875--but this discussion centers on hardball. A 4-1/4 inch Commander gets about 790--800.

Now—
Diameter .357, 158 gr at 825. Not too shabby, really, especially with the SWC profile.
Vs.
Diameter .451, 230 gr at 820. Better still, even WITH the round nose.

The 158 LSWCHP +P earned a good reputation for a variety of reasons--It is not hard to shoot well from medium frame revolvers issued by FBI, Dallas, Chicago, etc. It is accurate. Even from the small frame guns, it is manageable. It is easier to qualify with this handgun/load combination, especially with equal or less training, than with the .45. AND, you can train the recruits with light wadcutter .38 loads, before they go to the +P loads.

If a person is not a dedicated shooter, willing to train and practice regularly, he/she is probably a LOT better off with a .38 they can shoot pretty well, than with a .45 of which they are about half scared. Even the great lovers of the .45 ACP (Yes, I am one.) grant that a couple of center .38 hits work better than peripheral hits from .45 ball. Herein, I believe, lies the REAL effectiveness of the .38 Special.

Best regards,
RR

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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
 
I'd agree with most of the posts here: a very good .38 Spl load is better than the "worst" .45 load...a good hit with a .38 is better than a bad hit or a miss with a .45...a .38 is easier to hit with for an under-trained person than a .45...factory quoted ballistics are not what you're probably getting from your gun, etc. I use both. I like my snub-nosed .38 because I can keep it close to my body and it provides less leverage for someone trying to take it away from me. I also use, and practice a LOT with, my .45 Commander. That would still be my "serious" use gun!
 
Same effectiveness in what? A person with heavy clothes? A person with light clothes? A person with no clothes? An animal with thick fur? An animal with light fur? An animal with no fur? Are obstacles or ballistic vests involved? Every round has it's outstanding performance in some field. If I don't know what I am going up against though, I grab 40 or 45.
 
I can recall an occurance about 15 years ago. A prowler (would-be peeper, probably) caught a look at the .38 Cobra in my hand as I stepped off the deck, and it drove him right through a yard-thick rose hedge, thorns and all, without firing a shot. A .45 couldn't have done it better.
Seriously, there's a lesson to be learned from this experience. Does the name 'Lott' sound familiar?

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
As I recall the article also mentioned some slaughter house "finish" work. Adds a bit of personal experience to the theoretics.

Personally I've seen too many instances of round nose bullets deflecting. (.38, .45 both - lead and FMJ) on targets they should have penetrated. However, I still wouldn't want to stand in front of one and gamble on living. (Just in case my stance wasn't "just right" to allow my rib/skull to let the round move on in a tangental direction.)

Again, personally, if I can carry a larger gun (dress, occassion, weather permitting) then I want a larger caliber. Currently the .45 ACP is the caliber of choice. I like them there big ugly hollow points.

If I can't carry a larger gun and I'm back to my little S&W Bodyguard, or similar, then I still like them there big ugly hollow points. Of which I think the load in question is one of the best.

If I were caught in a close quarter combat situation which would I want most by my side? 8 rounds of 1 ounce of #4 buck from my Ithaca Pump.

The point being, for general socialization, carry the best you can, considering the situation. If you absolutely know trouble is brewing, either go else where or get some real artilery.

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Jim Fox
 
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