.38 Snubby Defense Ammo...JHP or FMJ?

D

Druggie

New member
:confused: You folks who carry J-frames, Taurus 85's, ect....2" barrels....do you carry JHP's or FMJ's? I know the .38 spl. round is no canon, especially coming from such a short barrel. Several articles have suggested that due to the low velocity & average energy of the .38 projectile, little or no expansion can occur. Firearms Tactical Institute's tests a few years back found NO expansion from 110 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP's through 8 water filled milk jugs. The 147 gr. FMJ round (traveling at aproximately the same velocity) was superior in penetration.

Some people figure that +p's will solve the penetration issue. I have a 337 S&W AirLite Ti, and all +p's do is knock the hell out of my hand and make the gun rise straight up. If you check the "Calibers" website, +p .38 ammo ballistics are suprisingly no better than standard ammo. In my experience, all you get is more kick, more muzzle rise, more noise, and lots of flash.

Right now, my "current" carry load is 110 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP's. Before that it was 129 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP +P. Before that it was Cor-Bon, Triton, and any other promising looking +P.

Why not a reliable, standard, FMJ? Something in the middle of the road? I practice a lot with American Eagle (Federal) 130 gr. FMJ's--easy to handle, reliable, and according to "Calibers" the ballistics of this round is as good as anything down the list (I believe around 950 fps...260 fpe...from 4" barrel). How about carrying those? Overpenetration with a FMJ? I guess there is a lot of give and take here. I have 3 Glocks, a Steyr S9, and a variety of autos, but I carry my snubby ALL the time.

Any advice would be appreciated.:)
 
I recently switched the carry ammo in my snubbies to .38 Special +P 158gr. LSWCHP. I figured an unjacketed lead bullet has a better chance of expansion, and the semi-wadcutters have sharp enough shoulders to make nice clean holes, even if they dont expand. They'll carve their way through tissue rather than nudge it aside, and the cookie-cutter shape will grab bone better than a round-nose profile.
 
The only problem I have using all lead-nosed bullets in my S&W 337 is that the company highly discourages it. My .38 is the titanium series, and it weighs around 11 oz. The recoil is sometimes so severe that lead bullet can actually come unseated, move forward, and freeze up the cylinder. This would be not so good in a defensive situation.:eek:
 
A friend of mine has used those FMJ's a time or two out of a 4'' in IDPA. A nice shooting load. They don't expand but if you can control the revolver with this ammo and hit your target it beats missing with anything else.
 
I would second the vote or lead--I believe the problem with lead bullets and Ti/Sc models are the 158-grain +P versions (and I wouldn't carry a +P in a Ti/Sc model anyway). My recommendation would be the plain 148-grain LWC (Lead Wadcutter)--and I don't think you have to worry about them jumping out of crimp and locking-up the cylinder. To be honest, out of snub .38 you will probably get as good of results with the accurate and easy shooting 148-grain LWC as any of the fancy and more expensive rounds gun magazines and ammo companies would like for you to spend your money on--and probably put them on target a lot quicker and more accurately.
 
I use the +P JHP's as fired from a very early issue
Smith & Wesson model 60 .38 Special.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
The Federal 110 Hydrashock "Personal Defense" load is junk. Sorry, but Federal got that one way wrong.

One of the Nyclad +P hollowpoints should work - you can make a strrong case for either the 125 or the 158.

I'm still on the lookout for some Remington 158+P lead hollowpoints, reputed to be the hottest of that type.
 
Another vote for the 158-gr. +P LSWCHP. Heavy, slow, soft, big hole in the nose. Likes sheetmetal, drywall, pine, flesh, and bone. Not for use in Ti series revolvers. Has always been the load of choice for my 642 and my/the wife's 686.
 
I am one more shooter who likes the 158+P LSWCHP. For that reason I like my snubbies to be on the heavier side. For lighter revolvers I try the 158 SWC in standard velocity or the WW 110 gr STHP.
 
Unjacketed (well, nylon jacketed) Federal Nyclad 125-gr. +P.

I'm having LOTS of problems finding this ammo, though, so I'm thinking of switching to something else. Just haven't figured out what yet.
 
Quality hits are all that count. In order for it to be a quality hit, you must be able to shoot it well enough to hit something vital, and the projectile must have the ability to penetrate deeply enough to actually puncture the something vital.

Light .38s that actually do expand out of snubbies do not penetrate any deeper than a .22 LR. They are marginal at best.

There are many cases where FMJs from handguns have ricocheted off of hard craniums. Therefore, I prefer a flatnose; or a heavy hollowpoint for the 'cookiecutter' effect, where the hollowpoint has the opportunity to dig in a little rather than glance off.
 
The last data I've seen for the 125-grain Nyclad JHP indicated underpenetration (<9") in bare gelatin and basically clogging/no expansion through three layers of denim (>16" expansion). You can get the same performance with "generic" or "white-box" 148-grain LWC (and probably a bigger crush cavity) at about half the price you'll pay for the "Premium" Nyclads or other loads.

I think you can't really count on anything more than a .357 calibre hole in and (hopefully) a .357 calibre hole out with the two-inch .38 Special snubs--or even with the two-inch .357 Magnum snubs with anything remotely approaching a controllable round (under combat conditions, not range conditions). I lean toward finding something accurate, easy shooting (so you can shoot it accurately and rapidly), and inexpensive (so you can practice with it a lot). I just don't believe you really gain anything near your money's worth for this "dollar a shot" premium ammunition.
 
I am really partial to Federal NyClad 125 grain HP. I got my 'data' from shooting these for years. I guess books and magazines can help choose a load, but I like to just shoot them myself. I see no underpenetration, and they kill hogs just fine.

Dollar a shot? I buy them off the internet for less than .25 each.
 
I just switched to Winchester SXT, the hole in that 130gr hp is enormous. It looks mean anyways. :D
I carry it in my 342. I love that little bugger.;)
 
I see no underpenetration, and they kill hogs just fine.

Dollar a shot? I buy them off the internet for less than .25 each.
Click to expand...

When I was a kid, we killed hogs with a .22 Long (the Long Rifles were too expensive). Wouldn't recommend for a defensive round, though.

The "dollar a shot" was in quotation marks because it was an exageration. I did check Natchez and they have the 125-grain standard velocity Nyclads on close-out for almost $20 per box of 50--about 42 cents per shot before you pay for shipping. The 125-grain +Ps were almost $15 per box of 20--about 75 cents per shot (again, before shipping). When was the last time you checked, the batteries in your calculator?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top