.38 snub or .380 pocket
- Thread starter _Muad'dib_
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Thats the problem with the lightweight (and standard weight for that matter) snubbies. You need to practice with ammo thats at the power level of what you carry, but its to demanding to practice much, or at least, any realistic and decent practice. Once you start thinking about how much its starting to hurt, youre done.
About all I'm good for these days, is about a box of 50.
About all I'm good for these days, is about a box of 50.
StuntManMike
New member
I switched from a DAO 38spl snub to a pocket 380 for two reasons:
1) the 380 conceals easier, and in more places.
2) I could not hit much with the snub outside of spitting distance.
1) the 380 conceals easier, and in more places.
2) I could not hit much with the snub outside of spitting distance.
overkill0084
New member
I prefer my .38 (Charter Arms Undercover). I can shoot it well. Ammo is more potent. Practice is cheaper if you don't reload. If I'm not carrying my .38, I step up to a XD40 SC. My wife's PPK/S is about as small a gun as I can realistically shoot, and my snubbie isn't really much harder to conceal.
jglsprings
New member
I prefer my snubby in 357...
And my auto in a 40 - short
To each their own.
These are what I think work best for me.
You need to shoot all of your ideas and figure out what you think is best for you.
And my auto in a 40 - short
To each their own.
These are what I think work best for me.
You need to shoot all of your ideas and figure out what you think is best for you.
I carry a semi of one sort or another 100% of the time, so I'm biased FOR semi's. However, given the choice between a .38 or a .380, I would feel OK with both. Not great, but OK.
My wife carries a .380 because it's a flatter profile than the snubbie .38's. Her "around the house go-to gun" is the Beretta 92. Given the choice, she prefers the 9mm over the .380.
The smallest gun I carry is the KelTec PF-9, which I would pick 100% of the time over the .380. But I'm also twice the size of my wife.
Snubbie's have been protecting folks a long time now. So have the little pocket pistols. Bottom line is whatever YOU prefer to carry based on your likes and experience.
My wife carries a .380 because it's a flatter profile than the snubbie .38's. Her "around the house go-to gun" is the Beretta 92. Given the choice, she prefers the 9mm over the .380.
The smallest gun I carry is the KelTec PF-9, which I would pick 100% of the time over the .380. But I'm also twice the size of my wife.
Snubbie's have been protecting folks a long time now. So have the little pocket pistols. Bottom line is whatever YOU prefer to carry based on your likes and experience.
People have mentioned how tough the FBI load is in Airweight snubbies, and I agree, but I still try to carry a heavier load in my 638. I have found that both Hornady and Aguila offer 158 grain JHPs in regular pressure .38 and both are much more comfortable to shoot than the FBI loading. I have found the Hornady at Cabela's most of the time and the Aguila at J & G and gun shows.
Id take the 38spl.Ive gone twice to pick up the Lcp or the 3AT but just could not pull the trigger.
The cal is (In my opinion)marginal and the sights are for the most part non existant.Give me a snubby with a lswc 158 hp if the choice is between those tw
ther wise give me a 45.
The cal is (In my opinion)marginal and the sights are for the most part non existant.Give me a snubby with a lswc 158 hp if the choice is between those tw
ther wise give me a 45.jglsprings
New member
For some reason there seems to a note of experience in that last post...
Practice with snubby...
AK103K,
I carry Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158gr LSWCHP in my 442. It should clock about 850fps out of the snub; lead bullets of that weight expand well enough at that speed.
I put 30 rounds of BB, plus 2 boxes of plain jane 158 range ammo down range at my last session. No big deal, really.
I have the CT grip on my 442; it's about the same size as a combat style boot grip, with a palm swell. Fills my hand well, so the recoil is no big deal.
To my great surprise, I shot it every bit as accurately as I can shoot my PM9. First time I could claim that about a snubbie, and not what I expected, but that's how it is. So...
Selling a PM9 and accessories over in the Gun Show part of the forum, if anybody is interested.
Meanwhile, given the right grip setup, it is entirely possible to practice with defense ammo in a snub.
Unless, on an individual level, it isn't. (Caveats: I'm 42, in good shape, physically active, with reasonably strong hands; don't know if I'll want to practice with snubbies when I'm 75.)
AK103K,
I carry Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158gr LSWCHP in my 442. It should clock about 850fps out of the snub; lead bullets of that weight expand well enough at that speed.
I put 30 rounds of BB, plus 2 boxes of plain jane 158 range ammo down range at my last session. No big deal, really.
I have the CT grip on my 442; it's about the same size as a combat style boot grip, with a palm swell. Fills my hand well, so the recoil is no big deal.
To my great surprise, I shot it every bit as accurately as I can shoot my PM9. First time I could claim that about a snubbie, and not what I expected, but that's how it is. So...
Selling a PM9 and accessories over in the Gun Show part of the forum, if anybody is interested.
Meanwhile, given the right grip setup, it is entirely possible to practice with defense ammo in a snub.
Unless, on an individual level, it isn't. (Caveats: I'm 42, in good shape, physically active, with reasonably strong hands; don't know if I'll want to practice with snubbies when I'm 75.)
MLeake,
I have a couple of 642's with the old standard S&W wood panels and a Tyler T grip on them. These keep the gun to pretty much its smallest size, and yet its still very shootable and comfortable to shoot with. I've tried the other types of grips, but always came back to the "old school" set up. I never understood why people insist on buying "small" guns, only to make them bigger so they can shoot them. Just never made sense to me.
These days, I use Speer 135 grain Gold Dots in mine for carry, and shoot my reloads (158 grain LSWC's over 4.4 grains of 231 at around 850fps) for practice. About a box of 50 is all I can take anymore, and my hand is sore for a couple of days after. Still, even though I rarely carry one anymore, I practice a couple of times a month with one, just to stay on top of it.
You really do need to shoot/practice with loads of an appropriate power level to stay on top of them too. Wadcutters reall just dont cut it, so to speak.
Practice wise, I base what I'm doing on how I do it, and with carry guns, thats drawing from where I normally carry it and shoot the targets (usually the human photo type, not bulls eyes) at varying ranges and often while moving. Normally, my 10-15 yard hits on target with my 26 are as tight or tighter than my hits on target at 5-7 yards with my 642's. All will work regardless, but I just find I'm tighter and faster, especially with follow ups with the 26.
If I'm leisurely shooting at a traditional bullseye target at the same distances, my groups are very similar, with either gun.
Its not that the small revolvers are inaccurate, far from it, its just for me, they are not as accurate or easy to shoot as quickly or well with, as the autos.
But hey, to each his own. Carry what you shoot the best with and are more comfortable with.
Oh, and Im a little older than you, but I still get around pretty good. I'm 55, 5'6" 170# with a 33-34 waist, and work and play physically outdoors most of the year. I'm sure I'll still shoot the snubbies as long as I can shoot any of them, but I've given up on the little 357's, as I dont really see the point. For all the same reasons above, and more, I think +P+ out of a 9mm like the 26 is the better solution.
I have a couple of 642's with the old standard S&W wood panels and a Tyler T grip on them. These keep the gun to pretty much its smallest size, and yet its still very shootable and comfortable to shoot with. I've tried the other types of grips, but always came back to the "old school" set up. I never understood why people insist on buying "small" guns, only to make them bigger so they can shoot them. Just never made sense to me.
These days, I use Speer 135 grain Gold Dots in mine for carry, and shoot my reloads (158 grain LSWC's over 4.4 grains of 231 at around 850fps) for practice. About a box of 50 is all I can take anymore, and my hand is sore for a couple of days after. Still, even though I rarely carry one anymore, I practice a couple of times a month with one, just to stay on top of it.
You really do need to shoot/practice with loads of an appropriate power level to stay on top of them too. Wadcutters reall just dont cut it, so to speak.
Practice wise, I base what I'm doing on how I do it, and with carry guns, thats drawing from where I normally carry it and shoot the targets (usually the human photo type, not bulls eyes) at varying ranges and often while moving. Normally, my 10-15 yard hits on target with my 26 are as tight or tighter than my hits on target at 5-7 yards with my 642's. All will work regardless, but I just find I'm tighter and faster, especially with follow ups with the 26.
If I'm leisurely shooting at a traditional bullseye target at the same distances, my groups are very similar, with either gun.
Its not that the small revolvers are inaccurate, far from it, its just for me, they are not as accurate or easy to shoot as quickly or well with, as the autos.
But hey, to each his own. Carry what you shoot the best with and are more comfortable with.
Oh, and Im a little older than you, but I still get around pretty good.
I'm 55, 5'6" 170# with a 33-34 waist, and work and play physically outdoors most of the year. I'm sure I'll still shoot the snubbies as long as I can shoot any of them, but I've given up on the little 357's, as I dont really see the point. For all the same reasons above, and more, I think +P+ out of a 9mm like the 26 is the better solution.My vote would also be for the Kel-Tec pf-9.
I switched from an airweight .38 snub partly because I was never comfortable with 5 round limitation, it was thicker and the cylinder would print when I pocket carried, and finally I never fell in love with the heavy trigger on the .38 and I found I was much more consistently accurate with the Kel-Tec.
With the pf-9, you get 7+1 rounds of 9mm and usable sights, something a lot of .380 pocket pistols don't provide, in a package that fits in my pocket better than the .38 ever did.
I switched from an airweight .38 snub partly because I was never comfortable with 5 round limitation, it was thicker and the cylinder would print when I pocket carried, and finally I never fell in love with the heavy trigger on the .38 and I found I was much more consistently accurate with the Kel-Tec.
With the pf-9, you get 7+1 rounds of 9mm and usable sights, something a lot of .380 pocket pistols don't provide, in a package that fits in my pocket better than the .38 ever did.
In a real world problem, most of these guns will be deployed at 5 yards or less, I doubt sights, or magazine capacity will be much of an issue. Snub or 380 work about the same. Shooting at somebody is a last resort. If a threat is 25 yards away, I'll just run. It boils down to what will you have with you at all times, and what you need to get out of Burger King, or wherever. The big or heavy stuff usually gets left behind. An LCP or NAA 22 mag are more likely to be with you, and are a big suprise for bad things. Keep somthing bigger in the car or house; 45, 12 ga. AR, flamethrower, whatever.
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Whos to say? You get what you get when you get it, and you go from there.
What if you cant? What if youre all there is, and you "have" to take the shot?
25 yards really isnt all that far either, most supermarkets easily offer that inside, and in many places the distances can open even
more.
I suppose it depends on what you "always" have with you. I pretty much always have a Glock 17 on me, and many times, a 26 as well. I also "always" have a Seecamp LWS32 along, but the last two are just BUG's. Why limit yourself to something less, if you dont have to? The full size guns really are not that much harder to carry on a daily basis anyway, and a lot easier to shoot well with.
Gee thanks for all the qoutes
Well - one can what if till the cows come home. I was just speaking to the most likely thing you will face - look at the stats on gunfights. How close and fast are they. I do a lot of shooting, I've found most people can't hit squat with a handgun under stress, in a hurry. All of the police firearm qualification courses I've been through start at 3 yards and have a maximum combat range of 15 yards. I'll still run if I can. Even if you win the gunfight you will be in expensive legal hassels for years. Only Bruce Willis and Segal just walk away and live happily ever after. Try reading "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob
, a must read for anybody that carries a gun for self-defense. BTW - G17 is a great gun, I had one, still have a 26, but found it uncomfortable fto have on my person - out to eat etc. If you can carry a big un go for it. If the shtf I'd rather have an AR or 870 - but I have to get to the car for that.
Well - one can what if till the cows come home. I was just speaking to the most likely thing you will face - look at the stats on gunfights. How close and fast are they. I do a lot of shooting, I've found most people can't hit squat with a handgun under stress, in a hurry. All of the police firearm qualification courses I've been through start at 3 yards and have a maximum combat range of 15 yards. I'll still run if I can. Even if you win the gunfight you will be in expensive legal hassels for years. Only Bruce Willis and Segal just walk away and live happily ever after. Try reading "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob, a must read for anybody that carries a gun for self-defense. BTW - G17 is a great gun, I had one, still have a 26, but found it uncomfortable fto have on my person - out to eat etc. If you can carry a big un go for it. If the shtf I'd rather have an AR or 870 - but I have to get to the car for that.
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I actually read Ayoobs book when it first came out. Still have it and read it every now and then, along with a few other "classics".
The problem with the stats is, if thats all you focus on, and expect to have to deal with, then your only fooling yourself. 99.9% of all somethings "may" be the case, until its your turn, and you get the one thing you figured would never happen to you, because you were told not to waste your time on it. I think being well rounded is better than being to narrow in focus. Absolutely, you should work on the basics, but its also best to constantly push yourself with things your uncomfortable or unfamilar with, just to see where you really are. But thats me.
Most people cant hit squat under stress, because they dont practice for it, or even anything close to it. Lets face it, most shoot little "groups" slow fire at little bullseye targets on a static range at their leisure (many, if not most ranges wont allow anything else anyway), and consider themselves good shots. Whos kidding who?
Its enough of a challenge to clear what youre wearing and get a full size gun from a solid holster into action and make good hits quickly, from awkward positions, and/or while moving. How many that carry pocket guns, in confined, tight, and restrictive places, even practice doing so with an empty gun on a regular basis, let alone a "live" gun? If youre not shooting what you carry, the way you carry it, and how you expect to use it, on a regular basis, then youre just fooling yourself as to what youre capable of. Stats and stress are meaningless if youre not prepared in the first place.
The problem with the stats is, if thats all you focus on, and expect to have to deal with, then your only fooling yourself. 99.9% of all somethings "may" be the case, until its your turn, and you get the one thing you figured would never happen to you, because you were told not to waste your time on it. I think being well rounded is better than being to narrow in focus. Absolutely, you should work on the basics, but its also best to constantly push yourself with things your uncomfortable or unfamilar with, just to see where you really are. But thats me.
Most people cant hit squat under stress, because they dont practice for it, or even anything close to it. Lets face it, most shoot little "groups" slow fire at little bullseye targets on a static range at their leisure (many, if not most ranges wont allow anything else anyway), and consider themselves good shots. Whos kidding who?
Its enough of a challenge to clear what youre wearing and get a full size gun from a solid holster into action and make good hits quickly, from awkward positions, and/or while moving. How many that carry pocket guns, in confined, tight, and restrictive places, even practice doing so with an empty gun on a regular basis, let alone a "live" gun? If youre not shooting what you carry, the way you carry it, and how you expect to use it, on a regular basis, then youre just fooling yourself as to what youre capable of. Stats and stress are meaningless if youre not prepared in the first place.
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