.38 plated bullets

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savagetroll

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New to reloading, I plan on loading some .38 with Berry's 125 gr plated fp for my first rounds using Bullseye. I have 3 manuals, Lee, Hornady and Lyman 49. All Are All Over the place on load data. I am thinking somewhere between 3.5 to 4 gr to start. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks
 
The powder makers site only shows BE powder, I am mainly just looking for a good first batch for .38. Mainly for plinking I guess, but not necessarily an ultra light load. I also have some Win231 and CFE but will probably use them for .45 acp. I have heard that you use cast data for plated bullets but yhat doesn't seem right. Thanks
 
Alliant's reloading guide shows a max charge of 4.5gr of Bullseye with the Speer 125gr GDHP in 38 Special. 10% below this would be a start of 4.0gr. Alliant shows a max charge of 4.8gr for 38 Special +P with the same bullet. Either of these loads will be well below the 1200fps threshold for max velocity for plated bullets. I would use Alliant's data and start at 4.0gr and work up to 4.5gr. Determining correct OAL with your plated FPs is important too.
 
Thanks mmb713, OAL is definitely something I am concerned about as well. I'll probably keep it a little above minimum, once I determine minimum. Any ideas on oal? Thanks
 
I have heard that you use cast data for plated bullets but yhat doesn't seem right.
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Always use low to medium range jacketed data for plated, or you might stick a bullet. Going higher could lose the plating (and accuracy), but no harm in probing the limit step by step.
 
So many will suggest using lead data for plated bullets but then others such as Real Gun and myself are right. Many reloading manuals do not show plated data and others show lawyer inspired loading data. I would load the Berrys with 4.4 -5.1 of Bulleseye just like I did with Raniers and roll crimp them to a factory length OAL.
 
I am leaning towards factory OAL like suggested, as far as crimping my Lee dies have the "factory" crimp which I am assuming will suffice. Thanks
 
savagetroll-

To determine OAL with plated bullets I like to seat them to the same depth as the bullets used in the data I am using. To do this you will need to know the length of the bullet being used. The easiest way is to buy a box of Speer 125gr GPHP bullets and measure them. Speer lists an OAL of 1.470" with the 125gr GDHP in 38 Special. Subtract the length of the GDHP from 1.470" and you will have the distance from the case head to the base of the seated bullet. Add this number to the length of your 125gr FPs and you will have the OAL of your FPs seated to the same depth as the Speer GDHP.

As far as crimping goes I use the Lee FCD to crimp. I have found that a half of a turn down after the crimping stem touches the case mouth works great for roll crimping plated bullets. A half turn works great for taper crimping auto pistol cartridges too.
 
Thanks MMB713, I actually just bought a box of Hornady XTP 125 grhp today. Probably gonna load them and measure from there. Thanks for the advice on the 1/2 turn on the crimp as well.
 
I also checked the case lengths, they vary. I am assuming it would be a good idea to trim all to a uniform size. I have heard some say they never trim pistol brass but it seems like it couldnt hurt. Thanks
 
my experience with this bullet

Savagetroll,
I started using this same bullet out of my 3 inch Python a few months ago and I really like the bullet. I use the following in .38 brass, which are relatively light, paper-punching loads:

4.2 - 4.5 grs of Bullseye, 4.2 - 4.8 grs of 231, or 3.5 grs of Tight group over a CCI or Federal primer. I seat it at 1.44" - 1.45" COL with a little roll crimp. The powder measurements are what the fixed rotors for my RCBS Lil Dandy throw. There is very little recoil with this load, even though the 231 load was the maximum recommended by Hogdon.

I have shot 6-shot groups as little as 1" at 35 feet which is about as far as I can see with my trifocal glasses. I am confident my gun with this bullet is capable of much better. Be careful not to over-crimp because the plated bullets will easily cut. I have shot bullets which I previously seated, pulled and re-used with cut plating. They were still pretty accurate.
 
Thanks DMY, my .38 is just a S&W airweight, 641 I believe. It's my pocket gun. I have some win 231 as well, and plan on trying a few loads with it, but will probably use it for my 45XD, along with some CFE. Appreciate the input.
 
savagetroll - Thanks MMB713, I actually just bought a box of Hornady XTP 125 grhp today.
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XTP is a different COL story than your plated. The crimp groove on the XTP predetermines where the crimp should be. Common advice is to seat to where only a glimpse of the groove remains after crimp. In any case, the COL in the Hornady book, preferably #9, is your guide. There is some leeway in acceptability of the exact number you achieve. No need to feel like it is critical to a few thousandths unless too long to fit the closed cylinder.
 
I also checked the case lengths, they vary. I am assuming it would be a good idea to trim all to a uniform size. I have heard some say they never trim pistol brass but it seems like it couldnt hurt. Thanks
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Suit yourself without letting perfection become an obsession. I know trimming as only called for when cases are over the max length. The precision used in rifle loading is not necessary with most handgun ammo. I have trimmed though, when I changed 44 Magnum over to a die that was easier on the case mouths. I just squared up the edges, generating very few shavings, but did discover that brand new, unfired Starline was already well under max. The crimp groove, if you don't seat to completely cover the groove, allows for accepting variance in the case lengths. Crimping in the middle of the groove gives you maximum +- tolerance.

Be careful with reusing Hornady brass from FTX rounds, because they are short and are useful only with FTX without guessing at pressure differences with regular bullets. Sort your brass by headstamp and measure the Hornadys. I segregate mine to where I actually never use Hornady, although I did purchase FTX bullets to enable using the brass in a pinch. It works best to buy FTX ammo only in nickel cases, which you can spot easily enough when cleaning brass.
 
works for lightweight belly guns also

Savagetroll:
As it so happens, I took my late father's old 1970's era Colt Agent to the range this past weekend and shot some of the Berry's 125 gr FP over 3.1 grs of 231. The Agent is also an aluminum alloy lightweight frame with a 2" steel barrel. The Berry's shot well and had less recoil than my 148 gr LHBWC. Haven't tried the Berry's with Bullseye or TightGroup in the Agent, but the other powders performed well in my 3" Python.
 
Ferget the Lee manual's data section (load data is lacking). Hornady's manual/data is for Hornady's jacketed bullets (except mebbe for a swaged lead bullet). Use Lyman's manual with data for a cast lead 125 gr. bullet (I know, the manufacturer says "mid level jacketed", but that's not starting loads, that's for max. loads).

Hint to a new reloader; start with tried and true loads/components. A .38 Special with 158 gr lead bullet has been reloaded 19.64 bizillion times and every possible problem has been worked out and reported on in many forums. Also. find a load in your manual before you buy components. Many fewer headaches trying to find load data.

For your immediate problem, if you have different loads/charges for a specific bullet and powder, start with the lowest charge. You can always work up w/higher charges.
 
Mikld:

I have all 3 of those books, and they vary quite a bit. The main reason I am going with 125's are because that is the weight of the HP's I carry on me, when Im not carrying my .45. Definitely gonna start low. Recoil does not bother me, just want something to mimic my carry round. One of many reasons I started is that I plan on getting a 454 Casul soon. Not a millionaire so gotta play that smart. Thanks
 
For your immediate problem, if you have different loads/charges for a specific bullet and powder, start with the lowest charge. You can always work up w/higher charges.
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Your Lee manual, IMO, is only fair at best for load data.

Your Hornady manual is dedicated to Hornady jacketed bullets only (and of course load data will be different than that for your plated bullets).

Your Lyman manual is the best choice, with lead bullet data used for your plated bullets (manufactures say "mid-jacketed level" loads for maximum charges, no mention of starting loads).

The data for lead bullets and jacketed bullets will differ (Hornady vs Lyman).

Go slow, double check everything, and have fun...
 
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