.38+P vs. 44 spc.

.38 or .44 spc?

  • .38 + P

    Votes: 45 43.7%

  • .44 special

    Votes: 58 56.3%
  • Total voters
    103
O

omegapd

New member
Hey All,

I'd like to hear some opinions on these for CCW...

My everyday CCW now is a 4 inch K frame .38 with a couple of speedloaders. I have carried some sort of K frame revolver for many years now and have settled on a Model 10 with a superb trigger. I also have a S&W 696 (L frame 3 inch) .44.

Normally the .38 will be easier and more comfortable to conceal. Smaller frame and smaller cylinder. It has one extra round and is easier to get back on target after shooting since the .38 doesn't recoil much. Lighter to carry and FWIW the speedloaders are lighter to carry too. Cheaper to shoot, also.

The .44 is obviously a better round. Bigger bullet/bigger hole. The cons are it's the opposite of everything I've listed above.

So, let's have some fun here and tell me what you would choose and the reasons behind it.
 
While the 44 Spl, is better, it is also more expensive and there is extremely limited ammo selection. Most of the SD ammo I've seen for 44Spl from any of the major ammo manufacturers is pretty primitive. Stuff like SWCHP and such. You can get just about any type of bullet design with the 38Spl., the modern stuff is performing pretty well. It's cheap to practice with as well.
 
If the M10 is working for you I don't see a big advantage to changing. The 44 may have a little more intimidation factor as the BG is looking down that train tunnel of a barrel, but I'm not sure if it is enough to make a change. I think a serious potential victim with a gun is intimidating enough.

I think the ammo selection argument is a bit more practical. Though I am a fan of the 38 158gr SWCHP.
 
Well a regular .38spl in very close to .380 or .9mm Mak, .44spl is almost the same as .45acp…

I think .44 is better, but .44spl ammo is not very common and costs a lot. What about .357mag? I mean a lot better than .38 and more powerful than .44spl.

But I don't like the limited capacity of a wheel gun and would go with an auto every time :)
 
I think to get an accurate comparison you would really need to compare a "K" or "L" .357, as far as cartridges go. How about a 3" 686 to the 696? That would be an easier choice for me. I have a 696 and like it a lot. But if I suspected I needed a hand gun that day and my choices were .38/.44 I'd take the .44. If they were .357/.44 I'd take the .357.
 
The new Corbon 38spl +p DPX is penetrating almost 14" and expanding to .59 in Clothed gelatin out of a snubby barrel. That is pretty good performance and its debatable if any of the primitive 44Spl. SD loads are going to do better than that. SWCHPs such as the only Federal SD available for the 44Spl, are known for clogging up really badly and very inconsistent performance. You're choices in the 44Spl. for ammo is basically SWCHP or Win. ST. Both are pretty outdated designs. I think that the modern 38spl loads like the Rem GS, Speer GD and the above mentioned Corbon load are going to offer very similar performance to outdated 44Spl loads, while being more controllable and cheaper to practice with. There is a .07 difference between the 38 and 44Spl in caliber. Less that the difference between 9mm and 45ACP. Shot placement is going to determine everything. Chances are most people are going to shoot 38Spl better.
 
If Winchester still makes the 200-grain Silvertip load in .44 Special, I would vote for that and the 696. Otherwise, you should be well-served with the K-frame.

Stay safe, and good shooting! :)
 
If I didn't reload, I would stick to the .38. I have 4 .44 specials, and they are all special to me.:o


You can debate for hours but they are both good cartridges. I carry .44 mostly, snake shot is bigger, lwc bullets are bigger, recoil is mild, but the pistol is bigger.

So I also carry my diamondback or official police, or my j frame smith from the sixties [vietnam carry].
 
I carried the .44 Bulldog for many years...

Recently a member of this forum turned me on to the idea of "chopping"
the barrel even with the ejector push rod... :D

Vunderbar! A .44 pocket gun!!!!!!!!! :p
 
44 Sp primitive ammo?

Has any one here really looked for 44 ammo for the SP.
There is large selection of ammo for the 44 sp but you dont find it in stores.
Just becouse a round goes through 14 inches of what ever does not make is a better round. The 44 SP has the same range of energy as the 45 acp and if you think that a 38 can ever get to that energy then your on another planet.
Primitave? What the 38 came out last year?
There are few rounds that compair with it below the 357 mag. Yea there a hand full in a small gun but there shotable with practice.
I carry a Charter arms bull dog, and a tarrus 445 in 44 sp. They dont kick any where near a 357.
And I wouldnt put down the SWC to much, I would rather have it for self defence than a 38 hollow point of any type.
44 SP is very old, very. So is an M1 Grand, but I would take it over a punny M16 any day, any.
And by the way if the 44 is so old, any one know how old the 38 is?
I may be mistaken but wasnt there some 38 before WW1
 
I carry a .44 Special every day. Chances are your .38 Special isn't any lighter. It is only 18.5 ounces and feels like a toy when you first pick it up. It's the L frame Centennial S&W M296. And I seriously doubt that my five shot .44 Special speedloader with ammo weighs enough different that you would be able to pick one or the other in your pocket!

its debatable if any of the primitive 44Spl. SD loads are going to do better than that. SWCHPs such as the only Federal SD available for the 44Spl, are known for clogging up really badly and very inconsistent performance. You're choices in the 44Spl. for ammo is basically SWCHP or Win. ST.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm just fooling myself with my Corbons in my Smith. It's "only" 1150 fps with a 165 grain JHP. And that's out of a snubby.

And last time I checked Buffalo Bore was selling two .44 Special loads. A 180 grain JHP at 1150 fps ought to exceed generic .38 Special by quite a bit!

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#44spl

And you can get Blazers with the 200 grain Gold Dot bullet. That would be an excellent choice if you don't want to deal with the blast and recoil of the Corbons.

Gregg
 
Lots of good SD ammo for the 44 Special.

CCI 200gr GD Blazer on sale at Academy sports. $12.00 a box.

Winchester ST was redesigned about 18 months ago and looks very good in testing.

Cor Bon 165grJHP at 1170 from my 696, and 1120 from my 296 is no slouch either. It also looks good in testing. Often carried in my TRS21. ST is favorite load in 296.

Cor Bon has just started initial testing on a DPX load for the 44 Special.

In my 642 pocket gun I carry Cor Bon DPX+P.

The people at the stopping power have done considerable 44 Special testing.

Do not know the rules here concerning posting another sites address, so I won't do it.
 
I guess I'm just fooling myself with my Corbons in my Smith. It's "only" 1150 fps with a 165 grain JHP. And that's out of a snubby.
Click to expand...

You're fooling yourself into thinking that that load is going to penetrate more than 8-9". That has less SD than a 115gr. 9mm with less velocity. Corbon has its standard rating at 1150fps for that load. I would say that it probably barely does that velocity out of a 4" barrel, let alone a snubby.

I should clarify, there is some good 44Spl. SD ammo available. The tough part is you have to order most of it online, which isn't a good thing. Some stores don't even have any 44Spl. loads period. I was basing my comparison on the original post and think that a smaller lighter gun that has an extra round would be better and that there isn't a huge advantage in going to the 44Spl. Obviously you can get stuff like Buffalo Bore and Corbon, but you have to order it. When the THSF I like to have ammo that is commonly available for my SD gun, because like I said, a modern 38Spl SD load is probably going to perform very similarly to a old 44Spl. SWCHP. By the way, if you don't reload, what are going to practice with in the 44Spl, without spending $20bucks a box?
 
The hot loads made by Grizzly and Buffalo Bore will outperform any 38 spcl loading hands down. It's not even close. As was mentioned earlier, ballistics are right on with 45 ACP. So there ya go. CA Bulldog, 19 oz. steel frame. 2.5" barrel. For the adventurous, you can propel a Keith 255 SWC at 900 fps or so. That thing will barbecue your steak while youre at it too. No kidding.
 
K-Frameage

I think you answered your poll.

The K-frame suits YOU better it seems. Everyone has their pet choices and caliber. It's good that you are carrying what you feel is more comfortable to you, your skills, grip, and mind.

Keep carrying the .38 Special +P. If you're better with it, it'll do what you need it to do if you're ever in danger.

I also must note that having tested a few custom tuned S&W revolvers...I think their trigger pulls are better than most DA/SA autos I have fired.

Long live the wheel gun.
 
You're fooling yourself into thinking that that load is going to penetrate more than 8-9". That has less SD than a 115gr. 9mm with less velocity.
Click to expand...

No, I would say YOU are "fooling yourself" if you think sectional density tells us how much penetration a load will give! Why would we even bother with any testing of such things at all if all we had to do was some math? So a FMJ bullet x with SD = y and a Silvertip JHP with the same SD =y will penetrate to the same depth? Hmmm.... I don't think so!

A .44 Special has a bullet diameter of .429". The "hot load" in the .40 S&W community is the +P load of 1350 fps and a 135 grain JHP. So that's a .400" bullet that is 30 grains less and going faster. (Which should make it expand faster and penetrate less but obviously bullet construction is going to have to be defined.) So the 40 S&W +P load is "the best thing going for police use" and the 165 grain .429" bullet is "too light to penetrate deeply enough?"

I personally prefer the 155 or 165 grain bullets in .40 S&W. IMO (I'll be honest enough to say that compared to some people) the Corbon load transforms the .44 Special into something very close to a hot .40 S&W load with slightly greater diameter. All coming out of a revolver which I prefer for CCW. Do I wish that Corbon would change the bullet to a Gold Dot? Sure. But I've popped a few things around the farm with the Corbon load as it exists now and the actual killing power is remarkable. It puts things down.

And let's not forget who we are. We aren't the FBI or even the local cops. I'm not preparing for the Miami shootout. My most likely use would be at point-blank range right into the front of somebody's chest. Somebody who almost certainly won't be wearing body armor. So the FBI penetration standard of 14" is a "nice to have" feature but it certainly isn't something I HAVE to have. I'm going to carry the most effective load that I've actually shot. My second choice would be the Gold Dot Blazer but it is so much slower that it's not really where I want to go.

Gregg
 
SD tells us everything about penetration. I'm not including FMJ though. I was strictly referring to HPs. Simply put, a 165gr. 44Spl traveling slower than a 115gr. 9mm isn't going to penetrate very well. In FMJ, the higher the SD will also have higher penetration. But comparing penetration on some HP and some FMJ is a silly comparison. I've never really said the 44Spl isn't more powerful, just that the modern commonly available 38Spl loads aren't going to perform much worse than the old-school 44Spl loads commonly available. The key here is commonly available. We all know you can get some pretty good loads for these but you have to order the stuff online.
 
cje1980, The results I have seen are somewhat different than what you are stating.:confused:

My velocities are listed above one of your posts--and results thru 4 layers of denim were 13" penetration, with expansion to almost .080.

Results are available on stopping power site, under 'test bed'.:)

Velocity is just one factor in penetration. There are many others.:D
 
Someone may have already mentioned here but I did not see: www.georgia-arms.com is now making an "enhanced" 240 gr JHP.44 Special load. Like most .44 Sp, not necessarily cheap but interesting option.
 
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