38 + P spec for a 2" snub

D

Doc Holliday 1950

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I'm zeroing in on the info I need. When I was a Reserve on the PD in the 70's we used what our force used and that was that. Today it's like Heinz 57 variety.
What's your opinions on the best SD load in a 38 spec +P for a 2" 357 mag revolver? NO home use at night and most likely outside during the day.
 
General consensus seems to be:

1. Gold Dot 135 gr. +P JHP
2. 158 gr. + P LSWCHP
3. Other modern JHP designs (XTP, PDX1, etc.)

Of course, I can't find Gold Dot's anywhere locally, or LSWCHP's for that matter. So, I've been using 125 gr. Golden Sabers, and I've also got a box of the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. SWC "Outdoorsman" load (figured it would be good for hiking).

Of course, it really comes down to what is most accurate in your gun, doesn't it? I have noticed that the Golden Sabers are seated very long (OAL is up there with .357's), so the jump to the forcing cone is shorter than perhaps some other .38 loads. Whether or not that makes a difference (especially under stress), who knows?
 
For .38 special +P out of short barrels, it doesn't get much better than the Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135 grain Jacketed Hollow Point Short Barrel load:

GD_Barami.jpg


This is my S&W 642-1 No-Lock with five of these rounds on a Bianchi speed strip.

Here is a ballistics gel test on the above mentioned load: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khazbS9pWjE

This is considered one of the best, if not THE best snub nose .38 special +P loads in the world. I myself have noted both low flash and managable recoil, and you can't argue with it's ballistic performance. This load is standard issue for both the NYPD and LAPD for use in backup snub nosed revolvers.

PS: I would avoid the Remington Golden Saber 125 grain .38 +P load for this gun, unless you can't find these. Keep in mind the internet is your friend and that's were I usually find my Speer gold dots. The reason I say to avoid the Remington load, is while it gives good performance in gel, in my experience it produces alot of flash and blast. The Speer Gold Dot load simply does not.
 
Does anyone like the Hornady 110 grain CD??
Click to expand...

It's an okay load, but 110 grains is on the light side for .38 special IMHO. From what I've gathered from research, the Hornady Critical Defense in .38 special +P doesn't expand particularly well, but it does expand reliably due to the red polymer tip that prevents plugging of the hollow point cavity. In short, I think there are better loads for .38 snub guns out there but the Hornday CD isn't bad.
 
In my limited experience:

1. Speer Gold Dot 135gr short barrel

2. Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWHP aka FBI load
 
I'm with Tortuga12 and skoro.

My first choice is the Speer +P 135g GDHP SB ("Short Barrel") - Speer SKU 23921. They are available here in this area (northern California), but at a premium capital outlay. Not only that, they're expensive :D

My second choice is any hot loaded swaged 158g SWC HP. Not high-tech at all, but they get the job done.

After that, the field widens. But IMO, I'd stick with 125g or lighter with anything else. You need the velocity to get the expansion.
 
Really think there's a whole lot of difference between any of them? Shoot what works in the gun. Seriously doubt anybody shot could tell what hit him.
 
I did score two boxes of Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P Short Barrel by putting it on the "notify me" list at Cheaper Than Dirt. Like mentioned earlier, it is not cheap. I bought two boxes so I could check accuracy, and practice with one box of it in my LCR. The first 5 rounds showed no futher shooting was needed. Off hand, 7yds. perfect 5 shots, center mass on a B27 target in a 2" group. The second 5 shots being nearly identical, along with some impressive ballistic gel videos on youtube varified that it would be my carry round for the Ruger LCR.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k890Rio2oBY
 
Thanks everyone. If I'm still alive when Speer 135's becomes available i'll certainly take all of your advice. The Buffalo Bore's are available.
Anymore thoughts out there??
 
Thanks everyone. If I'm still alive when Speer 135's becomes available i'll certainly take all of your advice. The Buffalo Bore's are available.
Anymore thoughts out there??
Click to expand...

Doc, stay vigilant. This load comes and goes in availability it seems, with emphasis on the "go". It is out there though, and frankly it's the load you are looking for IMHO. Just keep your eyes peeled! :)
 
It depends on the revolver to a certain degree. In my S&W M36 and 442 I prefer Remington 158 gr LSWCHP followed by Speer 135 gr "short barrel" Gold Dot. If I owned a super-lightweight gun with a polymer frame or one made of exotic metal like titanium or scandium, I'd probably stick with the Gold Dot because jacketed bullets are less likely to jump crimp under recoil. Also, I much prefer the Remington LSWCHP over the Federal or Winchester version for use in short barrels because the Remington's combination of softer lead and higher velocity seems to yield more reliable expansion (from longer barrels, the difference is much smaller).

In my 1950's vintage Colt Cobra, on the other hand, I won't use +P ammo so it gets either Hornady 110 gr standard pressure Critical Defense or a good 148 gr HBWC (doesn't much matter which manufacturer, I've used Winchester and Remington and see no discernible difference).

While I've not used them, the LSWCHP loadings from Buffalo Bore and Underwood look promising (though I'd probably stick with the standard pressure versions for alloy-frame guns due to the recoil). Also, in a milder loading for older guns, Federal's 125 gr NyClad looks decent though the penetration seems to be a touch on the shallow side for my taste.
 
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With the speer .38 +P in my S&W M&P 340 I got about 850 fps. With reloads 158 SJSP I got 950 fps with 5.7 grains of Unique and 930 fps with 7.5 grains of Unique. The funny thing was the felt recoil was less with the 930 fps loading than with the 840 fps loading, and both reloads were about the same recoil as with the Speer 135 grain Gold Dots.

I keep telling myself I'm going to try the Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWC-HP. It might be a winner, as it is closer to my reloads than the Speer 135 grain Gold Dots.
 
Is there no love for 148 grain wadcutters? They punch big holes without expanding, and have the most manageable recoil for a lightweight gun.
 
My Colt Series 2 Detective Special seems to like the Gold Dot 135 grain +P. I only run a handful of +P ammo through the little Colt in order to maintain proficiency. I prefer not to hammer the gun any more than necessary. Most practice shooting is done with standard velocity FMJ.
 
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