375 H&H Mag for the Big Five?

J

jthuang

New member
Got a quick newbie question for you.

Buddy of mine wanted to get a rifle for African game. You know, the Big Five that Jeff Cooper mentions quite frequently. Before last week, I had thought he was going to get a big rifle in .416 Rigby -- nice gun, gives decent velocity at lower pressures than the .416 Remington Magnum. While I have never hunted anything in my life, the consensus among my hunting buddies is that the Rigby can be used to take any of the Big Five.

Last week, my buddy shows up at the range with his new rifle -- a Remington 700 BDL in .375 H&H Magnum.

Now I seem to have a foggy recollection of Jeff Cooper saying that the .375 H&H Magnum is not sufficient to take all of the Big Five. Lion, maybe. But elephant? Cape Buffalo? Rhino (is it rhino or hippo out of water)?

So to you big game hunters out there:

1. Is the .375 H&H adequate (or reasonably so) to take the Big Five?
2. If the answer is no, what would you recommend?
3. What African game would you consider the .375 H&H in the "not enough gun" category?

TIA,

Justin


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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
From everything that I have ever heard and read the .375 H&H will do just fine, if the shooter is up to the task. It is not a "stopper," however. (As Col. Cooper points out.)

The big 5 are : leopard, lion, cape buffalo, Rhino, and elephant. (Cape buffs are supposedly the toughest, and meanest, of the lot.)

Hunting hippos is relatively new, and extremely dangerous, so they say. (Some places forbid it because of the danger, which for Africa says something.)
 
The good Colonel does not suggest anything smaller than a .458 for the big 5, and he really likes the .460 G&A apparently. It would seem that a .338 would be fine for leopard and lion, though.
 
I think the only thing that the 375 would give me the willies on would be the Nyati. All else could be taken with a good marksman.


Hueco
 
1. Is the .375 H&H adequate (or reasonably so) to take the Big Five?

* IMHO, the .375 with good bullets is fine for lion and leopard. With good shooting, it is adequate for the rest. There are better cartridges, but the .375 is a superb blend of moderate recoil and moderate performance. The reason that Aagard and Seyfried recommend it is due to the average hunters failure to shoot enough with the big bores. At least with a .375 the kick is light enough that shot placement may not suffer too much.

3. What African game would you consider the .375 H&H in the "not enough gun" category?

* Personally, when I go back for hippo and buff, I'll have a .4 something. The analogy Col. Cooper uses is that a .375 for the big three is like a .38 for self defense. Works but there's better choices.

The key as we've mentioned many times, is shot placement. Get your buddy to mount a good low power scope and really practice.

Giz
 
Capstick (God rest his soul) used a .375 on everything and got away with it, after his .470 double was stolen (here in the states, can you believe it?). Later in his career with the game department, he used the game dept. issue .458 Mag.

W.D.M. Bell killed most of his elephant with a 7x57 Mauser, a .303, and used a .256 Mannlicher on a few.

Of course, there are many who can bear witness that even a .600 N.E. is not enough. You have to 'use enough gun', especially when dealing with animals that can really hurt you if you make a mistake. So choose the most powerful cartridge that you can shoot well, and be sure to practice with it. Shoot plenty of skeet or trap, also.
 
The biggest problem with invoking the old timer's choices is that they had lots and lots of practice. Game in those days was also more available and less wary.

American hunters have very little collective knowledge of big game and an incredible propensity to get equipment to compensate for a lack of practice.

Got to consider your auidence and the existing situation when you make honest recommendations.

Art and I (others too) really beat the "practice makes perfect" drum for a reason!

Giz
 
I was reading about a year ago in a magazine about some guy who goes around and shoots everything with a .270!!!! I know he's done the big five, and has done moose and grizz, and many many others, I guess he's a true believer in shot placement! does anyone know this guys name?? I looked for the mag after I read this thread but couldn't find it. anyhow, if a .270 can do it, I know a .375 can. I think it really boils down to what the person holding the gun can do, and what they're willing to risk. I'm plenty confident in my shooting abuility, but for the big-5, i think I'd want just a little more lead.
 
The thing about a 375 H&H or any long action is you've got to pull the bolt all the way to the stop and return it smartly. A lot of guys short stroke bolt actions and jam them up.

My Model 70s, including two 375s and a 458 killed a lot of paper, never struck flesh.

I would stick to the iron sights as the Model 70 has excellent iron sights and the distances are not too far. I know you can scope a 460 Weatherby and have fired one, but what's the point? If you can't hit a paper plate at 100 yards consistently with iron sights, you need more practice, not a scope.

The only thing I would recommend about the 375 for bigger game is get a better bullet, like a copper tube jacket or even a solid. The factory 375 ammunition sold in the USA has jackets for light skinned game mostly. Maybe Federal Premium or something like that would have harder bullets.

Your professional hunter will have a big bore for backup, you can probably use his 458 when you go after Jumbo or the Buff.

------------------
o I raised my hand to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired. Wild Bill Hickok
o If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts... Wild Bill Hickok
o 45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
o It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error. Justice Robert H. Jackson
o It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself. Tom Jefferson
o When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up. BigG
 
BigG. I would beg to differ with you on a couple of points. First the long action. Check out a Remington Model 700 in 30-06. It has a long action that will take the .375 H&H cartridge, and it is one of the most popular actions around. You don't hear too much about people short stroking them.
As to iron sights, versus a scope. Some of us, due to age, or other eye related problems, cannot use iron sights. For example, I can see the rear sight with my variable bifocles,(sp) and even the target, but not the front sight. I have even had a special pair of glasses made up to try and correct the problem, but no such luck. So for a dangerous game rifle, I would get a good brand (Leupold, Burris, etc) 1x4 or 13/4x5 variable power scope and never look back.
No flame intended, just bringing out a few points you may have overlooked.
Paul B.
 
Why would a 30-06 be adequate for american bison while a 375 be inadequate for cape buffalo. Bison are 40% larger than Cape buffalo.
 
Some African countries, also many PHs will not allow novices or foreigners to shoot buffs, elephants, rhinos etc with anything less than a 416, for fairly obvious reasons ( they have to follow up on the foul ups ). The big cats kill reasonably easy, but a cape buff is nothing like the North American buffalo, weight isn't the only factor.
He can however hire the use of a 416 off the PH and buy the ammo too, not cheap but cheaper than buyng the whole outfit for one trip or so.
 
Welcome rev

Always glad to see new members. :)

I've never have and never will have the opportunity to hunt either the Cape Buffalo or the American Bison, but there is a huge difference in the two animals.

Bison are generally considered to be non aggressive herd animals who take up defensive postures against marauders like wolves. In spite of their size they are not as heavily muscled pound for pound as a Cape Buffalo.

The Cape on the other hand, is an agressive animal which as I've read has a nasty disposition, and they will hunt the hunter in many situations.:eek:

You might want to go to the new members forum and introduce yourself when you get time.:)
 
The simple answer to the question is yes..With the right bullets.

The more complicated factors have pretty much been covered.

I know of no country in Africa which requires a .416 as a minimum. Kenya used to require a .400 or larger but they've long been closed to hunting.

The .375H&H is the MINIMUM for dangerous game for a reason.

If he has the $$bucks to hunt the big five he could afford any rifle he'd want. A M-700 in .375 would be way down on my list of "big 5" rifles

However if that is his choice it'll serve your friend just fine.

I personally prefer a 500gr bullet of .458 or larger at a velocity of 2100fps+ for buff and elephant.

If my heavy were to go inop I always have a low power variable scoped .375H&H along as a back up.

Alot depends on the type of cover you'll be hunting in. In the thick jesse of the Zambezi Valley I feel very uncomfortable with anything less than fast handling heavy rifle with good ghost rings or a good express sight. And I really prefer a double in that environment.

I've been with in 20 yards of an elephant before I knew it in the thick stuff in the Zambezi.

There are some places I've been in Tanzania where I'd prefer a scoped bolt rifle due to the wide openness of the country.

PS

The only place left on earth where one can do a big 5 hunt all at once is in South Africa and only then on a fenced game farm. The cost would be well over $100,000. USD.
 
from an african!

i have never hunted any of the big 5, for one simple reason; its terrifying.
a good few years ago, i was vacationing at a game farm.
we had gone out on a game drive and decided to take a walk out into the bush as a large group. not 2 minutes alter we saw a herd of buffalo, i kid you not, there were atleast 500 of them. these animals are exceptionally intelligent, once they had picked up on our scent we had 1000 eyeballs staring back at us. luckily they had decided to leave the area.

with no incident, we quickly made our way back to the vehicle.

when hunting such game, be wary, after a shot that may have hit, the rest of the herd are likely to stampede off, the direction they take cannot be determined. granted, it will most likely be away from the noise, but you can never rely on this.

i'd consider the .375 to be o.k for the purpose, but if i ever had to go big game hunting, id have a .470 double.

just warn your friend to be careful if he ever goes hunting the big 5, after all in africa, anything can kill you.

and watch out for the giraffe's they hunt in packs! :rolleyes:
 
The 375 H&H works for the big five especially with some of the newer bullets. HOWEVER for charging big five animals something bigger will be more comforting !!
 
I'm not a "Big 5" hunter and probably will never be, just here to pass some information on. According to my Barnes loading manual the .375 H&H will push a 300 grain solid @ 2400 fps (slightly conservative)giving 3800 ft.-lb of energy. According to the Cor-bon web page you can get a .45-70 to push 405 grain solid @ 1600 fps giving 2303 ft.-lb of energy. Why do I compare the two? In the August 2007 Issue of Handloader Magazine theres a article on African .45-70 loads. If you look on pg. 65 there is a recovered .45-70 (405 grain cor-bon) that was quoted at penetrating both shoulders of a cape buffalo bull and then passing through both shoulders of the cow standing behind him. If the larger diameter .45-70 load with much less energy can penetrate four shoulders of a cape buffalo I'd bet that the .375 would have at least equal ability to do so and therefor be just fine for the "big 5" given the shooter does his part. As I said earlier I'm not a dangerous game hunter so I'm not going off of personal expierence but the expierence and knowledge of others. If someone on TFL forums is more informed I'd be much obliged to be corrected and learn something new. Good luck with that dangerous game.

Jeo556
 
Capstick (God rest his soul) used a .375 on everything and got away with it
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Amen. A Capstick man like myself.

I've never have and never will have the opportunity to hunt either the Cape Buffalo or the American Bison, but there is a huge difference in the two animals.

Bison are generally considered to be non aggressive herd animals who take up defensive postures against marauders like wolves. In spite of their size they are not as heavily muscled pound for pound as a Cape Buffalo.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
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