.358 Winchester build
- Thread starter reynolds357
- Start date
"See that fine line that's about 3/8" behind the bolts lug?
That line marks where the locking lug section is brazed onto the bolt body on those bolts!
Will they fire if the bolt handle is closed but the locking lug section's braze has let go?"
Not sure.
Whether it did or not is irrelevant at least regarding the gun going off. The locking lugs would do their job. Whee it might be a problen is if the shooter was facing someting like an enraged mama bear that thought her cubs were in danger. You'd best make that one shot count.
Seriously though, the only Remington problems I ever saw while working for a gunsmith was bolt handles that came off Remington 788s. I've heard of M700s sheding bolt handles but never the bolt head. Even if it sheared off completely odds are the locking lugs would be still in place in their slots so that nothing would/should blow back. I would also think that if such a thing would occur, it would be due to a bolt jammed in place by very high pressure and if that were the case the bolt handle would come off first.
Not saying that's a perfect answer BTW, just how I happen to see it. I don't think I'd really be that far of from what would happen. Even if the bolt turned to partially unlock. I do believe the lugs would hold as long as at least 50 per were still in contact.
As long as we're getting picky, I just checked out two Winchester M70s from 1968/69, a 1980's .300 Win. Mag. and two Featherweights, all push feed Winchester and guess what. The too had "welded bolt heads. (Actually brazed via an electrical induction process. Keeps th head and lugs from getting too hot while effecting a good hold.) If we're gonna pick on one, might as well pick on all the usual subjets, right?
Paul B.
That line marks where the locking lug section is brazed onto the bolt body on those bolts!
Will they fire if the bolt handle is closed but the locking lug section's braze has let go?"
Not sure.
Whether it did or not is irrelevant at least regarding the gun going off. The locking lugs would do their job. Whee it might be a problen is if the shooter was facing someting like an enraged mama bear that thought her cubs were in danger. You'd best make that one shot count.Seriously though, the only Remington problems I ever saw while working for a gunsmith was bolt handles that came off Remington 788s. I've heard of M700s sheding bolt handles but never the bolt head. Even if it sheared off completely odds are the locking lugs would be still in place in their slots so that nothing would/should blow back. I would also think that if such a thing would occur, it would be due to a bolt jammed in place by very high pressure and if that were the case the bolt handle would come off first.
Not saying that's a perfect answer BTW, just how I happen to see it. I don't think I'd really be that far of from what would happen. Even if the bolt turned to partially unlock. I do believe the lugs would hold as long as at least 50 per were still in contact.
As long as we're getting picky, I just checked out two Winchester M70s from 1968/69, a 1980's .300 Win. Mag. and two Featherweights, all push feed Winchester and guess what. The too had "welded bolt heads. (Actually brazed via an electrical induction process. Keeps th head and lugs from getting too hot while effecting a good hold.) If we're gonna pick on one, might as well pick on all the usual subjets, right?
Paul B.
reynolds357
New member
I am not really worried about the bolt head falling off. If I ever decide its a design flaw and become worried about failure, I will Tig it.
Makes way more sense to just buy one already made!
That 99F is a heck of a woods rifle!
Ruger made .358's.
Just buy one!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=362055756
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=360915687
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=360989018 This one is a 99!
That 99F is a heck of a woods rifle!
Ruger made .358's.
Just buy one!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=362055756
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=360915687
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=360989018 This one is a 99!
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The 600 is as cheap a gun as could be made. It lacks all of the features that a true rifle aficionado should want such as:
A. A good finish.
B. Control round feeding.
C. Three position wing safety such as what the M70 and Kimbers have.
D. A sturdy reliable extractor.
E. Bolt handle that does not break or fall off.
etc.
Take that rifle to the nearest gunsmith and tell him you want to sell it to him.
Tell the gunsmith whats wrong with the rifle and get a receipt for it with it's description and serial number on the receipt.
A. A good finish.
B. Control round feeding.
C. Three position wing safety such as what the M70 and Kimbers have.
D. A sturdy reliable extractor.
E. Bolt handle that does not break or fall off.
etc.
Take that rifle to the nearest gunsmith and tell him you want to sell it to him.
Tell the gunsmith whats wrong with the rifle and get a receipt for it with it's description and serial number on the receipt.
I happen to own a Remington 660, which is much the same rifle as the 600 with minor differences. I also own a number of very fine rifles and I guess I should start just shooting the others and sell the 660 to the first dimwit that will give me something for it.
I think if I were to take to the woods with the 660, I should expect the finish to fall off or become very unattractive. I should expect it to misfeed at a bad moment, after I fumbled for the safety that wasn't a 3 position wing model. I guess it wouldn't matter much if the extractor broke off, since the bolt handle would have fallen off at that point anyway.
Maybe that is what I deserve as I didn't have any more sense than buying the cheapest rifle made.
In reality, I think you should take your rifle to be rebarreled into the .358 and any capable gunsmith would welcome the work.
I think if I were to take to the woods with the 660, I should expect the finish to fall off or become very unattractive. I should expect it to misfeed at a bad moment, after I fumbled for the safety that wasn't a 3 position wing model. I guess it wouldn't matter much if the extractor broke off, since the bolt handle would have fallen off at that point anyway.
Maybe that is what I deserve as I didn't have any more sense than buying the cheapest rifle made.
In reality, I think you should take your rifle to be rebarreled into the .358 and any capable gunsmith would welcome the work.
Sorry dude...I don't go along with this thinking.... U priced 600's or 660's lately? I guess someone must like em..cause they don't give em away....
My son has a 600 in 243....It is super accurate....He killed his first buck with it....There is an article in TTHA magazine bout it....They are good lil guns....
The idea of this gun project..I think..is really cool....
reynolds357
New member
Savage99, according to your logic, most of the affordable rifles manufactured today are junk worthy of the trash bin.
Savage99 said:
So the only thing his M600 is lacking is CRF, most people feel that a Sako's are a fine rifle and it's a push feed. You can improve the finish, use a Sako extractor, and weld a different bolt handle on or buy a one piece bolt from PT&G. You can even add a three position safety to the bolt shroud as well and none but one of the rifles you pictured even have a wing safety you proclaim makes a fine hunting rifle.
I'm pretty sure that the bolt heads on the M700 isn't welded on either. It just doesn't make sense from a manufacturing standpoint to weld that piece on. It would be easier and cheaper to machine the bolt and locking lugs as one piece. However it is cheaper to machine the bolt handle separate and weld it in place. I'm sure that ring is just a transition between the more polished bolt body vs. the bolt head.
As far as it being an entry level rifle, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. There are far cheaper entry level rifles a person can buy new than a used M600 Remington. Besides that there are far more people buying and successfully hunting and shooting a M700 than any of the rifles you pictured every year with great success and not needing a single thing you mentioned to get the job done.
Besides the OP is talking about spending far less money to rebarrel than you're talking about spending on a "fine rifle". Even with trading/selling his M600 he can still probably put a barrel on cheaper. He even stated that he needed to stay within a budget if you had read further down in the posts.
I get excited about certain gun builds...As I said before about this one...My son's gun gets .5 to 3/4 inch MOA..so it is no slouch in the accuracy dept....
Another thing..it is a short..light rifle....Perfect for trecking through mountain timber and such....Troy Knapp..the notorious Utah mountain man theif..etc. carried one....He was on the run for years in the Utah wilderness....
Another thing..it is a short..light rifle....Perfect for trecking through mountain timber and such....Troy Knapp..the notorious Utah mountain man theif..etc. carried one....He was on the run for years in the Utah wilderness....
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taylorforce,
The Brno 22F at the top of the picture has a safety that controls the firing pin. Look closer with a magnifying glass. Sorry the picture is not better.
So have the Steyr Daimlers. Go to a store that has them and you might see.
Control round feeding (CRF) with bolt action rifles is desirable to prevent double feeding which may jam the rifle. Of course some shoot bolt rifles without CRF. This post is to try to educate them on what a fine rifle is. Not to sell them cheap stuff.
Your friend should send the rifle back to Remington for warranty repair.
Sako's are considered a well made rifle. Recently Sako has added some reference to CRF.
The Brno 22F at the top of the picture has a safety that controls the firing pin. Look closer with a magnifying glass. Sorry the picture is not better.
So have the Steyr Daimlers. Go to a store that has them and you might see.
Control round feeding (CRF) with bolt action rifles is desirable to prevent double feeding which may jam the rifle. Of course some shoot bolt rifles without CRF. This post is to try to educate them on what a fine rifle is. Not to sell them cheap stuff.
Your friend should send the rifle back to Remington for warranty repair.
Sako's are considered a well made rifle. Recently Sako has added some reference to CRF.
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
600's are getting pretty collectable... I recently got $450.00 for a 6mm Remington - 600... I personally don't like plastic parts on my rifles, so I never warmed up to it, but it was a very handy rifle...
Savage99,
I saw the safety on your Brno, I said none "BUT" one of your rifles had the safety you found desirable. I like M70 and Mauser rifles as much as the next guy, but what makes a "fine" rifle is a matter of opinion. CRF rifles aren't even 100% reliable, I have a 1903 custom .35 Whelen that if I put more than 4 rounds in the magazine it will not feed properly and jam. However, the rifle will easily hold 5 rounds in the magazine.
I've had firing pins and springs break, I've heard of extractors failing on CRF rifles. I've heard as well all the issues you've brought up with the M700 as well. To me all that really matters in the end to me, is am I happy with the rifle. If so then I could care less what another person thinks, because to me my rifle is a fine rifle and I don't have to conform to anyone else's opinion.
I saw the safety on your Brno, I said none "BUT" one of your rifles had the safety you found desirable. I like M70 and Mauser rifles as much as the next guy, but what makes a "fine" rifle is a matter of opinion. CRF rifles aren't even 100% reliable, I have a 1903 custom .35 Whelen that if I put more than 4 rounds in the magazine it will not feed properly and jam. However, the rifle will easily hold 5 rounds in the magazine.
I've had firing pins and springs break, I've heard of extractors failing on CRF rifles. I've heard as well all the issues you've brought up with the M700 as well. To me all that really matters in the end to me, is am I happy with the rifle. If so then I could care less what another person thinks, because to me my rifle is a fine rifle and I don't have to conform to anyone else's opinion.
reynolds357
New member
Savage, I really do not care too much about controlled feed. There have been countless reilibilitycomparisons of Mauser vs push feed and most end in a draw. In my personal experience, the only failure I have ever had in a hunting situation was with controlled feed. It was an old type Mauser extractor that would not go over a round in the chamber. Somehow, the round got in front of the extractor coming out of the magazine and the extractor would not close over the round and yielded my rifle inoperative until I figured out what happened and tapped the butt of the stock against the ground a couple of times free the round. The only difference in reliability I have seen noted in studies of the two action types is that working upside down, the Mauser is more reliable than push feed. All other positions are a draw. I honestly can not ever recall doing any shooting hanging upside down with a rifle. I have shot targets in a rapelling tower doing an Aussie window entry, but never with a bolt action rifle. If I ever go hunting and hang from a tree upside down, I will be sure to bring a Mauser.