357sig vs 357mag

When looking at power numbers for the .357sig, I've only found one factory load [so far] that significantly improves on the .40S&W or the 9mm+P loads: Sellier & Belliot .357sig 140gr at a claimed 1352fps and 563 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

This is clearly an equal to most of the factory .357 Mag loads I've been looking at in the 148gr or 158gr weights. S&B does make a 158gr .357Mag with 683 ft/lbs of muzzle energy claimed, but most others seem in the 500s.

I forget who, but the boutique shops make some in the 700s or low 800s for .357mag.


I agree: .357sig vs .357Mag is a comparison that has to have it's role defined before you can argue which is better.

For backpacking and potential 4-legged critters attacking, I'd prefer a HOT .357mag out of my Ruger GP100. I mean, HOT!

For home defense I'd be afraid that would overpenetrate walls/assailants and harm my family. For home defense/carry and 2-legged threats, I'd like the extra capacity of the .357sig to the .357mag.
 
...... Also, while 1450fps was the approximate velocity of older 125gr .357 Magnum loads, it is nowhere near the top end of velocity for that bullet weight in that cartridge....
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Nor is it close to the bottom. Some 4" revolvers carried by LE produced less than 1400 fps. with the 125 gr. bullet. And some produced more.

My P229 produces 1400 fps with CorBon and Speer 125 gr. HP's
Federal is less @ about 1376.

My P226 produced velocities more typical of police revolvers at about 1450 fps.

Something else to consider, is that the 125 gr. revolver bullets tended to shed their jackets. Nobody complained about the magnum's stopping ability.

Of course, if a bullet shed it's jacket today, it would be denounced as completely unacceptable. We all have to have ammo that perforates any barrier we might encounter and hold together at any cost.

CorBon's 125 gr. .357 SIG performs similar to that with the 125 gr. Sierra bullet or Nosler. Good grief, it can shed it's jacket and maybe even produce some small fragments while stopping Bubba in his tracks. Times have changed.

All other .357 SIG bullets were designed to hold together no matter what---that's what LE wanted and that's what they got.

NOTE: CorBon's 115 gr. JHP, loaded with the Sierra bullet, chronoed @ at a screamin' 1500 fps. Interesting load. Don't know if it's still available. Talk about fragment!:cool:
 
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"Oh, really? How does that Glock do with 180 grain bullets? At 100 yards? Really? No, gentlemen, the .357 Sig is a pale reflection of the .357 magnum. "
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Dennis Dezendorf

I'm going to totally agree with Dennis here. I bought one of the first P229's available in 357sig back in the 90's and compared it with my Python shooting over an Oehler 35P. Considering the slightly longer barrel on the Python it was still a stretch to match the 125gr performance of the Sig with the 357mag. And that is the "only" load that one could compare. I prefer the standard 158gr loads for the 357mag anyway which leaves the Sig out of contention. I have both the 357sig and 40sw bbl's for the P229. Guess which one I keep in the gun?
 
I love the 357mag round. However I am puzzled how such a skinny round can pack quite a punch like it does.
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From a self defense point of view the reason the vaulted 125gr load works so well is a) an excellent expanding bullet and b) easily enough impact velocity to expand the bullet.. VIOLENTLY!

And the diameter of the bullet is sufficient to damage quite a bit of tissue, especially if it expands.

And that is why it works so well.

And the .357 Sig load, with 125gr slug, mimics it. The Texas DPS are quite happy with the .357 Sig.

Deaf
 
better?

In SD, 4" type handguns, the 357Sig and the .357/125 can be considered equals balistically, and the Sig # fills the niche for which it was desiged. And.......you get alll those beans in your hand. But the equity of ballistics, and the edge of capacity, stops at that point.

Go to a longer barrel in a revolver and the 125 auto load falls behind power wise. The auto load is limited to 125 gr in factory form. (I think), not so the .357 mag. A 158 or heavier slug from a .357mag, espcially a long barrel or carbine, is serious medicine.

There is no carbine version of the 357 Sig (again, that I'm aware of).

Finally, you cannot "down" load a 357 Sig for cheap and easy practice. A certain power level is needed for the pistol to run. A .357mag can be stoked with .38 WC and shot as comfortably as a .22.

The 357Sig is a niche pistol/ctg. If it fills the role for folks, great.

But I think PawPaw got it......it is NOT a .357 mag
 
.357 Sig

I've had the .357 Sig and I, for one, dislike the round. May be a great defensive round, however it's too "snappy" and expensive to shoot a lot. And I shoot a lot. The recoil is little different than a regular .357 revolver. I usually fire about between 100 & 200 rds a practice session or more. After about a 100 rds. of .357 Sig I have pains in the hand/wrist. I would though much rather carry a .357 Sig plastic pistol than a .357 revolver.
 
bamaranger said:
In SD, 4" type handguns, the 357Sig and the .357/125 can be considered equals balistically, and the Sig # fills the niche for which it was desiged. And.......you get alll those beans in your hand. But the equity of ballistics, and the edge of capacity, stops at that point.
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and that what it's supposed to do, so what's the issue?

bamaranger said:
Go to a longer barrel in a revolver and the 125 auto load falls behind power wise. The auto load is limited to 125 gr in factory form. (I think), not so the .357 mag. A 158 or heavier slug from a .357mag, espcially a long barrel or carbine, is serious medicine.
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Factory ammo is not limited to 125gr. Just at MidWayUsa, there are at least 5 different bullet weights available.



bamaranger said:
There is no carbine version of the 357 Sig (again, that I'm aware of).
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There is at least one way of getting a 357sig carbine, and it's pretty darn cheap.... under $400

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

bamaranger said:
Finally, you cannot "down" load a 357 Sig for cheap and easy practice. A certain power level is needed for the pistol to run. A .357mag can be stoked with .38 WC and shot as comfortably as a .22.
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You most certainly can download 357sig. I have loaded rounds below 9mm starting levels and the gun cycles just fine. It may not be loadable to "mouse phart" levels where the bullet barely leaves the barrel but sort of load is of pretty limited utility and not of interest to most shooters anyway.

-----

Personally, I think the biggest mistake the designers made was mentioning the 357mag at all. They probably didn't know the absurd levels that people will go to just to make an argument. There's no logical end to the comparison.

If I say A=B when C, the "when C" is soon forgotten and endless arguments ensue about how A not = B at all. Someone will search endlessly for some exception where even when C, A is not = B and then I'm a liar for saying it is because I didn't account for the exception where B is better than A if you're in Martian orbit in a space station with a nitrogen atmosphere.

Yeah, the 357sig sucks because it can't match the 357mag in every conceivable circumstance at every bullet weight and barrel length. It sucks because maybe the Mag can do something than 99.5% of shooters will never do anyway. It sucks because if you load 9mm WAY BEYOND SAAMI psi levels, you can match Sig performance. Never mind that in another argument on another topic, the answer will be how dangerous it is to exceed established pressure levels.

All the real world stuff, you know, guns that weigh half as much and have twice the capacity, barely half as thick and are a good 2" shorter than a revolver with the same barrel length.... none of that matters at all.

Oh, and the 357mag sucks because it doesn't start with a "4".
 
So far all I have heard is how powerful the .357 mag is in a
revolver. If you want to see the true color of a .357 magnum
try it in a 10" barrel Thompson Contender. The muzzle blast
is truly a religious experience and I promise you it will ring a
100yd gong all day long. The 180gr gas check cast load from
Doubletap is a great hunting load. For self-defense I prefer
the .357 Sig because I can't seem to get my Contender out
of the dang IWB holster.
 
Finally, you cannot "down" load a 357 Sig for cheap and easy practice. A certain power level is needed for the pistol to run. A .357mag can be stoked with .38 WC and shot as comfortably as a .22.
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Actually Bama you can. Glock full sized pistols all use the same recoil spring. That is the 9mm, .40, and .357 Sig have the exact same spring. And the compacts all have the same was well as the subcompacts.

Thus you can download the .357 to 9mm velocities without any chance of jamming.

I don't know if Sigs or Rugers or Smiths have that setup but Glocks do.

And, of course, you can get a Wolf 9mm barrel made to fit the .357 and .40 slides and just add a few 9mm mags and there you go. Plus a AACK .22 unit and you have 4 guns in one. .40, .357 Sig, 9mm, and .22.

Deaf
 
This...
peetzakilla said:
Personally, I think the biggest mistake the designers made was mentioning the 357mag at all.
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On it's own merit, the 357 SIG is an outstanding caliber. And a plus is that I can have 13+1 tries with it in my G32 with an extremely fast reload. The .357 Mag is a workhorse no doubt and it deserves it's well earned reputation but when all the roles are viewed within context, the 125Gr 357 SIG is a CCW rocket. I have a bunch of Fed 125Gr HST and would like to get some Winchester Ranger bonded stuff eventually.
 
Ok, you can power down a .357Sig, but can you do it w/ factory ammo, ie can you do it as a non reloader?
Can you do it with out additional accessories like a barrel or conversion kit?

REgards carbines, well .......the Mech Tech is out there and I never thought of it....but can you get a .357 Sig in a lever, a pump, a bolt or single shot? And not have to take down your Glock in the process?

As far as bullet weights, I was wrong and stand corrected.

I still see the 357Sig as a niche auto, designed to fill a specific role, (which it does very well it seems) but not the equal or as versatile a handgun/cartridge as the .357mag.
 
bamaranger said:
I still see the 357Sig as a niche auto, designed to fill a specific role, (which it does very well it seems) but not the equal or as versatile a handgun/cartridge as the .357mag.
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Well, ok, but so what? Isn't the 40SW in the same niche? Frankly, isn't the 9mm?

The 357mag isn't equal the 44mag, which isn't equal the 454 casull, which isn't equal the 460SW.... so what?

Plus, I'd point out that revolver barrels are measured from the front of the bullet where semi-autos are measured from the breach-face. In other words, a 357sig with a 3.46 inch barrel (Glock subcompact) only has 2.1 inches in front of the bullet. A 3.4" revolver has 3.4" in front of the bullet.

The difference between 3 and 4 inches for a 357sig is around 120fps. A revolver loses perhaps 50fps from it's cylinder gap. So, barrel length and velocity comparison are not really "apples to apples"
 
I still see the 357Sig as a niche auto, designed to fill a specific role,
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And that is its.. a self defense round. It was made to pretty much duplicate the 125 gr. .357 magnum load.

Sure it isn't a versatile as a .357 magnum, but I've never seen a sub-compact .357 magnum hold 11 shots either.

Custom reloader companies can make you thousands of .357 Sig rounds loaded to 9mm or less velocities.

Should be no problem to get one of them to make a 125gr at 1100 fps load.

http://dallasreloads.com/1.aspx?$1=921 is right here in Dallas!

Deaf
 
I don't see the need to disagree about anything. Your questiion was, does the 357 sig have the power of the 357 magnum? Since there are no set parameters by which to compare, the answer should be simply "NO" since the majority of 357 mag loads would be substantially more powerful than the 357 sig.
 
My brothers CCW is a glock 33 and he loves it. I wish I could get him to stop using his reloads as his carry ammo but in the end I cant force his hand.

The 357 Sig does loose some power to the 357 magnum even in the same bullet (125 grain). That said it makes up for it in ammo capacity. I have never seen a 357 magnum revolver with more than 8 rounds.

While I am a huge 357 magnum fan boy I have to acknowledge that the 357 sig is not a bad round.
 
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