.357 sig vs .40
- Thread starter Shakgul
- Start date
Crow Hunter
New member
Not sure I understand your question. What is a "lower gain 40"?
However, if you own a .357 Sig, chances are you should be able to get a .40 S&W barrel and just swap it back and forth.
I know it works for Sig and Glock, I don't have experience with it in other brands but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
However, if you own a .357 Sig, chances are you should be able to get a .40 S&W barrel and just swap it back and forth.
I know it works for Sig and Glock, I don't have experience with it in other brands but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Catfishman
New member
I've wondered the same thing. Is there a recoil difference between a lower grain .40 and a .357 Sig? I wouldn't think so.?
The Mississippi Hwy Patrol has switched to the .357 Sig and one of them told me they like the penetration ability of the Sig.
The Mississippi Hwy Patrol has switched to the .357 Sig and one of them told me they like the penetration ability of the Sig.
The .357 Sig was one of many attempts to get .357 Mag, 125 grain service revolver ballistics (1400+ fps) from a service auto. In this they succeeded.
9mm +P+ loads, like Federal's 155 grain 9BPLE, will crowd 1350 fps from service length pistols. That's probably close enough for government work.
I was a puppy cop when the .357 Mag/125 was popular, and it was getting used plenty. There were failures to stop with it as well. Some years later, we finally got he go-ahead to carry 1911s provided we could qualify with them. We jumped on that faster than I could type it. I still prefer them to anything else and they sure weren't a step down from the 357.
These days we are issued the .40 it's and excellent service round. I view the .40/165 as having the best combination of penetration and expansion in a high-cap service pistol. My preference is for a 230 grain .45 JHP, but none of them are any better than you can shoot them.
9mm +P+ loads, like Federal's 155 grain 9BPLE, will crowd 1350 fps from service length pistols. That's probably close enough for government work.
I was a puppy cop when the .357 Mag/125 was popular, and it was getting used plenty. There were failures to stop with it as well. Some years later, we finally got he go-ahead to carry 1911s provided we could qualify with them. We jumped on that faster than I could type it. I still prefer them to anything else and they sure weren't a step down from the 357.
These days we are issued the .40 it's and excellent service round. I view the .40/165 as having the best combination of penetration and expansion in a high-cap service pistol. My preference is for a 230 grain .45 JHP, but none of them are any better than you can shoot them.
If the ammo prices weren't so high for the sig, I'd prefer this over the .40. I had a lonewolf .357sig barrel years ago that I could swap out in my G-27. Being that the Glock 27 was subcompact and lite, the recoil seemed to me to be a bit more harsh than the regular .40 rounds I shoot. But the sig round seemed to have the edge in accuracy.
With a heavier full size pistol and maybe a stronger bolt spring this would be a great potent round.
With a 4 inch barrel, the sig has much flatter tajectory, more penetration with non hollow points, and devestating expansion and energy dispersal with the specialty defence ammo.
All in all- theres not much ballistic difference in energy between the sig and the 40..., but IMHO the sig is a much more efficient penetrator/ expander/ flat shooter....atlast though, ammo prices are killing the availability and our personal preferences.
With a heavier full size pistol and maybe a stronger bolt spring this would be a great potent round.
With a 4 inch barrel, the sig has much flatter tajectory, more penetration with non hollow points, and devestating expansion and energy dispersal with the specialty defence ammo.
All in all- theres not much ballistic difference in energy between the sig and the 40..., but IMHO the sig is a much more efficient penetrator/ expander/ flat shooter....atlast though, ammo prices are killing the availability and our personal preferences.
thanks
I have a .40 and I use 165 grain. I was told by a gun dealer that the .357 sig was a 9mm chambered in a .40, so when I was looking at grains of the ammo they make .40 rounds as light as 130 so that seemed like it would be almost the same as .357 sig. Has anyone seen a .40 round lighter then 130 grain? Does it get the same balistics as a sig?
I have a .40 and I use 165 grain. I was told by a gun dealer that the .357 sig was a 9mm chambered in a .40, so when I was looking at grains of the ammo they make .40 rounds as light as 130 so that seemed like it would be almost the same as .357 sig. Has anyone seen a .40 round lighter then 130 grain? Does it get the same balistics as a sig?
CDNN has a Winchester Ranger.40S&W 135 grain load at a very reasonable price. This supposed to be an LEO only round with an advertised velocity of 1300fps. It is the Border Patrol load and they have reported very good results with it.
I have tried it in several of my .40s and it has been flawless and as accurate as anything I have run through those guns. The felt recoil is much less than the 180 grain loads I used to use.
I don't see the need for me to use a lighter and smaller diameter bullet in a more expensive cartridge with no performance advantage. When I need a high performance in a 9mm cartridge, I use the Federal 9BPLE. It is cheap and time proven and give about 1300 fps with a 115 grain bullet.
The .357 Sig may be very useful for those who are issued one and it certainly has excellent results. I just don't need something that is no better than cheaper alternatives. Also reloading bottle necked cartridges is much more difficult than straight ones and I reload a lot of practice rounds.
I have tried it in several of my .40s and it has been flawless and as accurate as anything I have run through those guns. The felt recoil is much less than the 180 grain loads I used to use.
I don't see the need for me to use a lighter and smaller diameter bullet in a more expensive cartridge with no performance advantage. When I need a high performance in a 9mm cartridge, I use the Federal 9BPLE. It is cheap and time proven and give about 1300 fps with a 115 grain bullet.
The .357 Sig may be very useful for those who are issued one and it certainly has excellent results. I just don't need something that is no better than cheaper alternatives. Also reloading bottle necked cartridges is much more difficult than straight ones and I reload a lot of practice rounds.
CarbineCaleb
New member
The .357 Sig cartridge is in a way a 9mm chambered in a .40 like your gun dealer said, yes. The .357 Sig cartridge was developed by necking down the .40S&W case to the diameter of .357 - which is the same diameter as the 9mm.
I don't think you want to go to 125gr loads in the .40S&W though. They work well in the .357 diameter, but is getting to be too low a bullet mass for the fatter .40 diameter, some people would say it has too low a "sectional density" for good penetration (for defense application at least, for paper it doesn't matter).
I don't think you want to go to 125gr loads in the .40S&W though. They work well in the .357 diameter, but is getting to be too low a bullet mass for the fatter .40 diameter, some people would say it has too low a "sectional density" for good penetration (for defense application at least, for paper it doesn't matter).
The 357 Sig is a dandy round. The bottleneck cartidge feeds flawlessly, it shoots flat, penetrates well and I think it has less recoil than a .40.
You are pretty much limited to the 125 GR bullet, but, thats ok as its a pretty proven stopper.
The 115 9mm +P+ is ballistically very close to the 357 SIG. But, its a vey high pressure round and will likely beat your gun up a little faster than standard pressure rounds. On the other hand, the guns designed around the 357 SIG can handle that pressure pretty well.
Its a very good round. So is the .40. And the 9mm. And the .45 ACP..and the .357 Magnum...etc...etc.
If you can put any of those rounds where they need to go, you'll be fine. Alot of State Police agencies and Feds, along with alot of city agencies (Dallas PD right off the top of my head) really like the round.
You are pretty much limited to the 125 GR bullet, but, thats ok as its a pretty proven stopper.
The 115 9mm +P+ is ballistically very close to the 357 SIG. But, its a vey high pressure round and will likely beat your gun up a little faster than standard pressure rounds. On the other hand, the guns designed around the 357 SIG can handle that pressure pretty well.
Its a very good round. So is the .40. And the 9mm. And the .45 ACP..and the .357 Magnum...etc...etc.
If you can put any of those rounds where they need to go, you'll be fine. Alot of State Police agencies and Feds, along with alot of city agencies (Dallas PD right off the top of my head) really like the round.
rottieman33
New member
.357 Sig and 9mm both take the same size bullet dia. .355. just the 357 Sig is faster then the 9mm but slower then a 40 S&W
9mm 147gr. bullet, 3.5gr. of powder speed is 750 FPS
357 Sig 147gr. bullet, 5.2gr. of powder speed is 900 FPS
40 S&W 155 gr. bullet, 6.1gr. of powder speed is 1000 FPS
the powder is the lowest charge you can put going by my reloading books
and a little side note: at 5.2 grains of powder you can reload 1400 rounds of 357 Sig
9mm 147gr. bullet, 3.5gr. of powder speed is 750 FPS
357 Sig 147gr. bullet, 5.2gr. of powder speed is 900 FPS
40 S&W 155 gr. bullet, 6.1gr. of powder speed is 1000 FPS
the powder is the lowest charge you can put going by my reloading books
and a little side note: at 5.2 grains of powder you can reload 1400 rounds of 357 Sig
Deaf Smith
New member
Do like me. Have one in both rounds (.357 Sig and .40 S&W.)
That way the next ammo shortage that comes won't affect you as much. And then add 9mm and .22. Say a Glock 27 with 9mm, .357 Sig, and AACK .22 unit. That way 4 types off ammo all work in your gun.
Deaf
That way the next ammo shortage that comes won't affect you as much. And then add 9mm and .22. Say a Glock 27 with 9mm, .357 Sig, and AACK .22 unit. That way 4 types off ammo all work in your gun.
Deaf
Main reason I would stay away from the 357Sig is ammo price, plus it's a pain to reload.
Ammo capacity between the 357Sig and 40S&W is always the same in a particular gun frame and magazine as the 40 is the parent shell for the 357Sig.
The Sig has a feed reliability advantage - only a fractional improvement in good guns though. The Sig might have a slight edge in long-range performance but that's not usually an issue.
Ammo capacity between the 357Sig and 40S&W is always the same in a particular gun frame and magazine as the 40 is the parent shell for the 357Sig.
The Sig has a feed reliability advantage - only a fractional improvement in good guns though. The Sig might have a slight edge in long-range performance but that's not usually an issue.
.357 Sig is great for something like Highway Patrol. For indoor work, not so much. It's far too loud compared to other rounds, and will damage hearing more easily. The noise/pressure created by the round is something like 2.5 to 3 times that of a .45, if memory serves. For this reason, I still think the use of the .357 Sig on airplanes is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If an air marshal pops on of those off on a plane, there will be a lot of people with serious hearing damage.
And you don't get your ears back. It's life-long.
And you don't get your ears back. It's life-long.
Actually the "old" Border Patrol load was a 155 JHP at 1250 FPS. The new load is a 180 HST at about 1050 FPS. And yes they worked well.
If an air marshal has to shoot on a loaded plane, you have bigger problems than some hearing loss.
If you reload your practice ammo there is not much difference in price. If you don't shoot alot, either way it does not make much difference. With modern HP's there is not enough difference between a 9mm, 357 Sig, 40 S&W or 45 ACP to worry about. They are all made to penetrate the same distance and mushroom at a certain velocity threshold.
If you were a highway patrolman whose greatest risk is probably a gunfight with someone who is in a car, would you rather have a .357 magnum classic, .357 Sig, .40, 10mm, .41 magnum, or .45 ACP?
I think I would go for the Glock in 10mm. With the high capacity you can retreat under your own covering fire to cover behind your patrol car and still have ammo left to fight with.
I think I would go for the Glock in 10mm. With the high capacity you can retreat under your own covering fire to cover behind your patrol car and still have ammo left to fight with.
Unfortunately these folks must carry what they are issued. Hopefully their agency picks right.
This is one of the things that the Border Patrol studied when deciding on the 40 S&W. The 9mm and the 45 ACP fall short on penetrating automobiles and still being able to inflict enough damage to the occupants. The Border Patrol wanted a semi auto with higher capacity, but with the same power as a full power 357 Magnum which worked well for us for many years. The 40 S&W was the perfect choice.
The 41 Magnum was never considered, due to the desire for a semi auto. At the time of the tests, the FBI was using the 10mm and was having issues with Agents ability to control the full power 10mm. Most modern factory 10mm loads offer little over the 40 S&W (100 -200 FPS) where the 40 is already achieving sufficient velocity. I do not believe the 357 Sig existed at the time of the tests and I have very little experience with it.
When we were issued the 40 S&W I did my own informal testing on an old Dodge parts truck. Using the Beretta 96D
and 155 JHP's at 1250 FPS I shot the Dodge up, I tried every conceivable angle on the glass and sheet metal. The bullets ALL went thru and thru everything in the truck (no engine). Some of the bullets went thru glass and then 4-5 layers of sheet metal only to disappear into the dirt. I was impressed.Due to the advancement in semi auto's and ballistics and the fact that goblins travel in packs the semi auto only makes sense. I love my wheel guns, but for EDC they are relegated to the backup gun role, and its a J frame 357.
When I got my Sig P250c 40sw I was thinking about a 357sig barrel for it. Seeing the ammo prices I was having doubt but when I looked at the ballistics of the 40 I realized I don't need the 357.
The Win PDX1 165 BHPs I have for SD is very potent rounds. According to ballistic101 the velocity is 1140fps and 476fp of energy. Plenty enough and there's even more potent rounds on the market.
The Win PDX1 165 BHPs I have for SD is very potent rounds. According to ballistic101 the velocity is 1140fps and 476fp of energy. Plenty enough and there's even more potent rounds on the market.