.357 sig vs 185 +p .45 acp smack down

S

Super-Dave

New member
If you compare .357 sig to 185 +p .45 acp it seems the .45 has more energy and should out perform the .357 sig.

According to Federal and Speer website at le.atk.com

.357 sig gold dot Muzzle energy = 525 and the Energy at 25 yards = 457

185 +p .45 acp hydra shok Muzzle energy = 524
and the Energy at 25 yards = 477

Based on this I would make the assumption that the .45 185 +p should create a larger temporary cavity and out perform the .357 sig.

Is my reasoning wrong?
 
What bullet design is the sig shooting?
How do they compare when they hit jello?
light/fast vs slow heavy?
Tastes great/Less filling?
Ginger/Maryanne?
 
The muzzle energy of the two is nearly identical (1 ft.lb. different) but the .45 retains more energy at 25 yards. This is because the .357 Sig is more reliant upon velocity to achieve its energy than the .45 is. As the bullet flies through the air, it sheds velocity but not weight.

As to effectiveness, handguns in both calibers are more likely to be used at 25 feet than 25 yards so there is likely to be much less difference in energy. Even if they are used at 25 yards, 20 ft.lbs. of energy isn't very much at all so the difference would be negligable.
 
I figure if the energy is the same. The larger bullet ".45" will create a larger temporary and permanant cavity.
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My gut feeling might agree with yours, but I'd bet you'd have to test this on a bullet design by bullet design basis. Hypothetical scenario here...what happens if the .355 diameter bullet of the sig expands to .50 and the 45 expands to a full 1.0" but the 45 penetrated half as far? That scenario might favor the sig in terms of total volume crushed.

I just think you would need to do testing to answer your question. Even then, what ramifications does it have in the real world? I don't know.

I do agree with WC....Maryanne.....unless I could chamber BOTH calibers.
 
In my humble opinion I think on Smack Down, Steve Austin is gonna open up a can of whoop -ass on the Rock:eek: We all know rasslin is real don't we?:rolleyes:
 
Ballistic tests can lie. I they're both much more powerful than a 38 and most people feel just fine with one.
 
Bullet construction is what dictates overall bullet performance

How many of these useless, hypothetical ammo comparison threads is Super-Dave gonna start?


...and who said wrasslin' isn't real!?
 
Probably a pointless exercise in debating shades of gray ...

Proper skills development on a range might be time better spent.

A more relevant question would seem to be whether any given person can shoot consistently well & accurately enough to rapidly place enough examples of either round on an intended target where they need to be placed to most effectively perform as defensive ammunition ...
 
The difference in the raw numbers is negligible. Bullet performance dramatically outweighs them.

Accuracy, reliability and ergonomics of the weapon platform would matter to me more than the numerical differences between the two cartridges. I would feel adequately armed with either.

If anything, the fact I can get almost equivalent stats in a smaller-framed gun with a larger magazine capacity might make me lean toward the .357 instead of the .45.
 
I'd like to take this opportunity to say Maryann as well.

Why do we worry about one particular loading of one particular caliber when comparing what we want to what is available.

The real and only question is "can a particular person shoot a particular type of ammo effectively?".

I would not give my mother-in-law a 44mag for self defense even though it is beyond question a better all around cartridge than the .38 special.

Get the most blast you can carry effectively without making it more trouble than it's worth. Do this EVERY time without fail and you will never have to wonder if you made a mistake.

If you dont know if a 45acp is a better cartridge than the 357 SIG, compare the numbers of the best in each cartridge.

If you've already made the decision to purchase one over the other, it doesn't really freakin' matter how good the OTHER cartridge is now does it?

I mean seriously, it's kinda like wondering "does my neighbor gets better fuel economy than me?"

It doesn't change my fuel economy in the slightest.
 
As neither round gets anywhere near 2000 fps, the temporary cavitation is going to be fairly small and not likely enough to cause a serious enough shock in tissue to create a lasting shear/cavitation injury.

On average, heavier bullets tend to penetrate further than lighter bullets and faster bullets tend to penetrate deeper than slower bullets.

Bullet construction also plays a role. Shot placement is the most critical however. No handgun round is going to convert a near miss into a incapacitating hit.

I like the 11 mm round as it comes out of the gun I like shooting. I buy expanding ammunition because I want to bullet to make the biggest hole possible and not pass through the target. If my favorite gun fired a 9 mm, I would probably shoot that.
 
If this is some kind of stopping power what-is-best thread then the ONLY way to get a defnintive answer is to find out how well they actually work on the street.

Paper ballistics only go so far. Jello goes only so far.

I'd look to see how well the .357 Sig has worked out for the Texas DPS and the Secret Service (say the 125gr Gold Dot load), as well as other police organztions that use it. Same for the 185gr +p .45. Which organizations use what exact load and how well has it performed on the street.

Anything else is just a guess.

Deaf
 
How many of these useless, hypothetical ammo comparison threads is Super-Dave gonna start?
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I've been wondering the same thing lately...
Starting inflammatory threads seems to be his mission in life.

On the plus side, I've seen his kind come and go...and I'm predicting that he is destined for the same eventuality.

Are you paying attention, Super Dave?
 
I demand to know the relationship between Super-Dave,Super Dave 71, and Super Dave Osbourne. What happens when they all hit a brick wall? Does one outperform the other?

tipoc
 
I demand to know the relationship between Super-Dave,Super Dave 71, and Super Dave Osbourne. What happens when they all hit a brick wall? Does one outperform the other?
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I want to know what kind of expansion and penetration we can expect out of the three different Daves when they hit that brick wall. Super Dave Osborne wears a helmet, so I'd expect better penetration from him, but I suppose it depends on whether the other Daves are soft or hollow points.
 
If you compare .357 sig to 185 +p .45 acp it seems the .45 has more energy and should out perform the .357 sig.

According to Federal and Speer website at le.atk.com

.357 sig gold dot Muzzle energy = 525 and the Energy at 25 yards = 457

185 +p .45 acp hydra shok Muzzle energy = 524
and the Energy at 25 yards = 477

Based on this I would make the assumption that the .45 185 +p should create a larger temporary cavity and out perform the .357 sig.

Is my reasoning wrong?
Click to expand...

A thrown baseball likely has more energy than either of those.

Energy
doesn't
kill
anything.

It's a poor way to measure the effectiveness of a handgun cartridge, too. The lighter bullets at max velocity from a catridge usually have more energy than a heavy bullet pushed the same way. That's because velocity makes more difference when figuring energy. That doesn't mean that the lighter bullets are necessarily more effective.

Daryl
 
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