.357 sig, .357 mag

Just wanted a little clarification. Some are saying that a .357 sig is a necked down .40 S&W and some are saying no it's not.

The cases are not the same. The .357 sig is a higher pressure round than even the .40. However, you could make a 10mm case into a .357 sig, but I don't see why considering the prices I've seen wouldn't make a big difference. Both types of brass nowadays are pretty expensive.
 
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describing it as a necked down .40 gives a rough idea of what it looks like

I was not advocating one try to make it by necking down a .40 as, of course, .357 brass is commercially available. And many .40 caliber guns can be converted to the Sig with a drop-in barrel. I think arguing if it is as good as a .357 Magnum misses the point that they are apples and oranges. It gives us one more viable SD auto caliber from which to choose. That variety can be a good thing.

I like the 226/229 and think this caliber is the perfect compromise between the .40 and the standard 9mm, potentially giving more energy, expansion, penetration than either, while shooting flatter and using inexpensive .355 cal. bullets.

Shooter429
 
However, you could make a 10mm case into a .357 sig..
The 10mm uses a large pistol primmer, the 357SIG and .40S&W use a small pistol primer. Not that you couldnt probably work that out, but you'd probably have to work out new load data to use the 10mm case. Thats assuming that like the .40, the 10mm case is also strong enough. I believe the 357SIG still has a higher max. pressure than the 10mm.
 
.357 sig sits in between the SAAMI specs for .40 and 10mm. Yes you would have to accommodate for a large pistol primer. I don't have that data, but I know it's been done.
 
hmmmmm 10 rounds of .357 sig out of a pistol, or 8 rounds of .357 magnum out of a revolver ?

I prefer the 8 rounds from a S&W 627PC.

Then there is the Desert Eagle ... 10 rounds of .357 magnum out of a pistol.
 
The 357SIG has the highest pressure specs, or at least according to the S.A.M.M.I. specs. (listing here....http://www.ramshot.com/powders/)

.40S&W.....35,000psi

10mm........37,500psi

357SIG......40,000psi

hmmmmm 10 rounds of .357 sig out of a pistol, or 8 rounds of .357 magnum out of a revolver ?
Only 10? Most of my SIG's hold 13. :)

I'll still take 8 out of my P239 over 8 MAG's out of that snubby too.
 
funon1 hit the nail on the head. The .357 Sig is a high pressure TRUE 9mm, built around a case fitted to traditional 9mm frames, and fitted for the same frame of the lesser-powered cartridge. Besides obvious diameter differences with it's more powerful revolver counterpart, there have been other and more dangerous problems with its application in auto frames not redesigned for the higher pressures.

Specifically, I refer to the Beretta 92 so commonly (previously) used in law enforcement. Failures from the slides and frames cracking under heavy use caused major concern. As a result, the NC Highway Patrol, NC Wildlife Resources Enforcement Division, and SBI have discontinued their purchase and reissued Sigs and Glocks. Some are in .40 or .45, and some still carry the .357's.


-7-
 
all .357 Sig bullets, except for CorBon, are designed to hold together and never seperate as required by LE.

I disagree with bullet separation being a desired feature. Any bullet that separates is one that stops penetrating, sometimes in a rather short distance.

Look at the ads by bullet companies. They will show the separated, multi- piece bullets as the failed ones, and the mushroomed-but-intact ones as the superior bullets they want to sell you.

Bart Noir
 
Yesterday, 05:53 PM #26
AK103K
Senior Member


Join Date: 2001-05-01
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 3,363 The 357SIG has the highest pressure specs, or at least according to the S.A.M.M.I. specs. (listing here....http://www.ramshot.com/powders/)

.40S&W.....35,000psi

10mm........37,500psi

357SIG......40,000psi


Quote:
hmmmmm 10 rounds of .357 sig out of a pistol, or 8 rounds of .357 magnum out of a revolver ?

Only 10? Most of my SIG's hold 13.

I'll still take 8 out of my P239 over 8 MAG's out of that snubby too.
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You lucky you don't live in California. Here maximum is ten round magazines.

By the way, the S&W 627PC is a 5" barreled revolver. I would still prefer the 8 shots of .357 magnum over a .357 sig with 13 round magazine. Just my personal preference.
 
You lucky you don't live in California.
Yes I am. :)

By the way, the S&W 627PC is a 5" barreled revolver.
Not always.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=122873774

Preference of course, is everyones choice. I have K, L, and N frame S&W's, and would never consider them as a gun I would carry. I'm from that era where they were as much or even more of a choice as the autos too, so its not from lack of experience. Just to much bulk and weight, and mostly in the wrong places. I get more all around from my autos, but thats just me. Use what works best for you and your most comfortable with, and you cant go wrong.

If I had my 620 back then, this is what it would have been running. :)

ry%3D400


(its what I kept in my 19's, and 28's)

These days, its just a fun plinker for me, as are my 28 and 60.
 
You also dont get the muzzle blast and flash out of the 357SIG's (basically none of either) compared to the 357MAG, and again, especially with the smaller revolvers.

The muzzle blast and flash of a .357 Magnum are vastly over-exaggerated and really only an issue with the hot 125grn Magnums like the famous Federal 357B. In the heavier 140-158grn loadings that many people (myself included) prefer, the blast really isn't much worse than a hot 9mm (such as the Winchester Ranger 127grn +P+ ammo loaded in my CZ-75) or an even moderately powerful 10mm (such as Winchester 175grn Silvertips). I have personally fired full power 140grn Cor-Bons from my 2 1/2" barrel S&W M66 at night and while you could definately see the flash, it was not blinding and was no more debilitating than that of my CZ-75 loaded with the 115grn S&B FMJ's I was also shooting at the time.

While I agree that the 357MAG can be more versatile (especially out of guns with longer barrels) across a broader range of uses, when it comes to the main reason for the 357SIG, the round it duplicates is the round that was most carried for the same purpose in the 357MAG's, a 125 grain JHP running around 1450fps out of a 4" barreled gun. If the 357MAG were still as viable a weapon as some seem to claim, especially since you can load it up so much hotter, I wonder why it is you dont see more people carrying 4" and 6" Model 19's, 686's, 620's, and 27's/28's, etc, instead of high cap Glocks and SIG's in 357SIG?

Not everyone wants the ballistics of the 125grn .357 Magnum. Many people, myself included, like heavier loadings such as Cor-Bon's 140grn JHP, Winchester's 145grn Silvertip, or any of the various 158grn JHP's (I personally carry Remington's 158grn half-jacketed JHP). Also, I think you're underestimating the number of people who are carrying revolvers. S&W K-Frame .357 Magnums, particularly models with 2 1/2 or 3" barrels are becoming increasingly difficult to find and expensive. Seems to me that these guns are becoming rather sought after and the people who have them seem to like them. If they were used as nothing but a range toy, I'd think people would prefer larger revolvers with longer barrels. Personally, I carry a 2 1/2" M66 in the summer and a 4" M28 in the winter (although the M28 began loosing out to my 4" 629 this past winter)

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I know the reason my 357MAG's have mostly been setting in the safe for the past 15+ years. They are bulky, carry half or less what most of my equivalent powered autos carry on board, and take more work to stay on top of, especially if you practice with realistic ammo. My P239 or P229 in 357SIG, will shoot groups at 15 yards I struggle to shoot with my 60 at 7 yards, and I can shoot the P239 or P229 all day long with full powered loads in practice if I want. The 60, I'm lucky to get through a box of 50 factory level loads before my hand (and my targets) tells me to stop.

Your experience is quite different from mine. I actually find a revolver easier to conceal than a similarly sized auto because, for the most part, the more rounded contours of a revolver make it less likely to print,The chances of six shots not being sufficient in my current circumstances is low enough to be incosequential, and I'm most familiar with a DA S&W so that's what I find easiest to shoot once it's properly set up (this usually requires the installation of a set of smooth Houge wood stocks).

The real issue that selection of one of these two calibers over the other hinges on is whether your prefer an auto or revolver. AK103K obviously prefers an auto while I myself am much more comfortable with a revolver.
 
I agree, its always going to be about personal choice and experience. You have to do what you have to do to be happy. By all means, use what you like and shoot with the best.

The muzzle blast and flash of a .357 Magnum are vastly over-exaggerated and really only an issue with the hot 125grn Magnums like the famous Federal 357B.
The muzzle blast and flash I'm accustomed to from the 357's was more from the older 125 grain loadings, fired from shorter barreled guns. The whole point of them was because they were "hot", and it was accepted that there was going to be blast and flash. Some of the newer loads do have more reduced flash, but the blast is still pretty impressive, and again, especially from the shorter barreled guns. The punishing recoil of the smaller guns was also something you had, and still do have to deal with. With the 357SIG, you get neither, and you dont have the shootabilty issues with the smaller guns.

Also, I think you're underestimating the number of people who are carrying revolvers. S&W K-Frame .357 Magnums, particularly models with 2 1/2 or 3" barrels are becoming increasingly difficult to find and expensive.
I think the main reason for this is, they are not normally an item you see in most shops and have to be special ordered. Prices on most of the new revolvers have gone up like everything else too.

I think this can also be said for most model revolvers these days, they are just not as popular as they once were, and other than the J frames, you just dont see them in the cases in the numbers you used to, or at least in all the shops I visit, and what you do see, are the occasional new model or your basic trade in types. If you want something specific, your chances of finding it on the shelf are pretty slim, and you usually have to order it.

As far as underestimating the number of people carrying them, I come in contact with a lot of people who, be it for work or otherwise, carry guns, and I personally know of no one who carries a revolver larger than a J frame, and those that carry them, use them mostly as back ups. My buddy owns a pretty busy and well stocked gun shop, and the J frames and cowboy guns are the big sellers when it comes to revolvers. Most of the other revolvers on his shelves are trade ins or collectibles. The big sellers in the shop are the 1911's, XD's, Glocks, and SIG's. I'd be willing to bet, if you go into most any shop, the autos out sell the revolvers by a fairly, if not, very large margin, but especially when it comes to a weapon that will be carried.

Your experience is quite different from mine. I actually find a revolver easier to conceal than a similarly sized auto because, for the most part, the more rounded contours of a revolver make it less likely to print,
I suppose its again all a matter of preference and how you carry. I've always found the autos (along with their reloads) to be easier to hide and more comfortable to carry, especially in an IWB type holster. I dont normally use anything else, and the OWB, while more comfortable with the revolvers, mostly due to the cylinder issue, requires more work and effort the keep the gun hidden due to things poking out.
 
It still makes me question if it would have received as much attention if they named it the 9mm SIG rather than naming it .357 sig.
 
Other than annoying 357MAG purists, I dont think the name would have made any difference. It would have been what they called it, and still be what it is.
 
If the 357MAG were still as viable a weapon as some seem to claim, especially since you can load it up so much hotter, I wonder why it is you dont see more people carrying 4" and 6" Model 19's, 686's, 620's, and 27's/28's, etc, instead of high cap Glocks and SIG's in 357SIG?

Come on, 6" of anything is just too much to expect anyone to carry around on a regular basis. There are plenty of people carrying 4, 3, and 2" revolvers out there. We've all heard the arguments before: that is, which is better and why. I won't rehash it. But personally, I've got 2 .40 S&W's and I would trade either in a minute for another S&W or Ruger revolver. With full-house .357 Mags I can hit the bullseye all day long with my 4" Security Six at 25 yards. There is no way I can do that with my Beretta Cougar and a magazine of jacked-up .40 S&W.

IMHO, all those kiddies are carrying Glocks and SIGS because it's a "cop gun". It's the Mall Ninja mentality. It's "tacti-cool". And revolvers are not fodder for the TV cop shows anymore, unless you are watching "Life on Mars". And that is fine, but it's just not for me and a large percentage of regular-shooting and carrying gun owners.
 
I've got 2 .40 S&W's and I would trade either in a minute for another S&W or Ruger revolver.
Well? Whats stopping you? If its not working for you, why keep it?

There is no way I can do that with my Beretta Cougar and a magazine of jacked-up .40 S&W.
Is that the guns or ammos fault? I think not.

IMHO, all those kiddies are carrying Glocks and SIGS because it's a "cop gun". It's the Mall Ninja mentality. It's "tacti-cool". And revolvers are not fodder for the TV cop shows anymore, unless you are watching "Life on Mars". And that is fine, but it's just not for me and a large percentage of regular-shooting and carrying gun owners.
Yea boy, I guess some of us old "kiddies" were out of our minds when we moved on to better pastures as they became available. Must have been all those good drugs available back in the 60's and 70's. Although I will say, that mall ninja training sure paid off big time! :rolleyes:
 
Is that the guns or ammos fault? I think not.

You're right, it's not the ammos fault. It's the fault of the semi-auto itself. I've never been comfortable with them and a heavy loaded .40 is a lot of work.

Well? Whats stopping you? If its not working for you, why keep it?

I would, but then how could I try and get better shooting them? And they're not worth more than $300 traded in, not enough to pick up another revolver.

Yea boy, I guess some of us old "kiddies" were out of our minds when we moved on to better pastures as they became available. Must have been all those good drugs available back in the 60's and 70's. Although I will say, that mall ninja training sure paid off big time!

I guess you are the exception that proves the rule! :p
 
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