.357 question

[Unclenick]

Again, he's having no problems firing the loads. The problem is a mechanical problem with feeding from the magazine in his rifle.


Tony,

If you use a bullet designed to produce full cartridge overall length in the .357 Magnum case when its crimp cannelure is crimped into, it will be 0.135" shorter crimped to the same cannelure in the .38 Special case, and that may be enough shorter to cause a feed problem. Find a bullet with a separate .38 Special crimp groove located 0.095" further down, or find a similar style bullet, but designed for .38 Special instead of for .357 Magnum, and you will then have a cartridge only 0.040" shorter instead of 0.135" shorter than the .357 Mag.. That may be enough difference to end the feed problem.

 

[buck460XVR]

Again, he's having no problems firing the loads. The problem is a mechanical problem with feeding from the magazine in his rifle.

I completely understand that, but having several handgun caliber carbines, and reloading for them, I have my concerns about a stuck bullet using powder puff loads designed for handguns in carbines.A very viable concern. As I said, those are my concerns for my guns, if the OP does not have those concerns and is confident with his loads, so be it.


The shorter .38 special cartridge is well known to cause problems in many lever guns....Kinda what gave the old Marlins in .357 such a poor reputation as "Jam-a-matics", thus the suggestion by many to stick with .357 brass. Seems the simple use of .357 brass would be easier and no more expensive or effort than finding a specific bullet that may or may not solve the feeding problem. The OPs original question was not about whether to use .357 brass or not, but whether the same load could be used in them as he used in his .38 special cases. Seems he has already found the solution to his feeding problems, now he is just trying to develop a safe load.

 

[TimSr]

Again, he's having no problems firing the loads. The problem is a mechanical problem with feeding from the magazine in his rifle.

If he goes to a larger case, he will be CHANGING his load, and it may not continue to fire as it did before.

 

[Tony Z]

As with any handloads, I've been approaching this with caution. Being the loads are subsonic, and much quieter than a .22 LR, I've tested without hearing protection, locking for two sounds: first is the cartridge firing and the second is the round hitting the steel gong (50' away). Since my test lots are ten rounds at a time, if I do not hear either sound, I check to bore to determine if a round is stuck.

So-again, my issue is with shorter cartridges not reliably cycling through the rifle.

 

[Jim Watson]

I am sure Unclenick has seen a bullet with two cannelures or one placed to bring the OAL up to .38 Special maximum, but they are not common.
.357 brass would be the easy way out.

Either way, I would increase the powder charge by 10% to make up for the greater volume.

The only bullet I ever stuck in the barrel was with a 125 gr bullet with the same powder charge and OAL that I had been using for 158s. Just too far for the primer flash to reach the powder when coming up from a low ready position.

 

[TimSr]

So-again, my issue is with shorter cartridges not reliably cycling through the rifle.

Then I guess I'm not understanding your question.

Using the same mixture in a .357 case instead of a .38 Special length case, does anyone foresee any problems?

This was the question you asked in your orginal post that people have been answering. The most common answer was "yes".


If your question was whether a 357 case will end your cycling issues, the most common answer was also "yes".

 

[Wishoot]

One of the best pieces of advise I came across for reloading my Winchester 94 was to load up a few dummy rounds and use them to verify smooth cycling before you spend the time priming and charging the case.

 

[Unclenick]

If he goes to a larger case, he will be CHANGING his load, and it may not continue to fire as it did before.

Yes, but he's talking about a low pressure load of a fast powder. It's going to burn fairly completely in the long barrel, which means it will make about the same total amount of gas which means the muzzle pressures will be about the same. So if the bullet didn't get stuck in the bore in one due to failure of the pressure to overcome bore friction, it's not going to happen in the other.

The peak pressures would differ by 20% if you assumed the .357's brass has the same capacity below a bullet base as .38 Special does when the bullet is the same distance forward of the head. But Starline tells me the .357's taper is normally longer, so that if you seat a bullet the same distance from the head in both, the .38 Special will have a little more capacity. That means the powder space doesn't increase quite as much going from .38 Special to .357 Magnum brass and using the same bullet seating depth (from the case mouth), as it would merely seating out 0.135" further in a .38 Special case.

Using QuickLOAD's default case capacities and assuming a 20" barrel, going from 1.455" COL in .38 Special case to 1.590" in a .357 magnum case with a 125 Grain bullet over 4.0 grains of Unique, I get an 11% drop in peak pressure from about 8300 psi to about 7500 psi, and a 3.6% drop in muzzle velocity from 1091 fps to 1065 fps and a slight 2.6% drop in muzzle pressure from 723 psi to 704 psi. velocity from a 20" barrel for the load described in the OP when moved to a .357 case. It shows a small percent powder not burned, so the muzzle pressures differ by that 19 psi in the simulation. I doubt that will play out in the real world exactly. But either way, the differences all would be overlapped by the range of shot-to-shot variances you'd expect from either load by itself.

So while performance is not identical, neither do I see it being a major factor in this situation. I, personally, would go to something a little faster burning to get a little bit higher peak pressure. The case seal against the chamber will then be a little better assured, and the velocities will be closer together.