.357 Maximum vs .35 Whelen

Another way of looking at it:
With a fairly common loading for .357 Max, a 180 gr HP at 1,550 fps, energy at the muzzle is less than .35 Whelen at five hundred yards with a 200 gr SP that left the muzzle at 2,900 fps (Hornady Superformance advertised figures).

Bump that .357 Max load to 1,700 fps for a muzzle velocity more appropriate for a rifle, and drop the .35 Whelen back to 2,800 fps (because no one actually sees Hornady's advertised velocity), and it isn't much different:
The 200 gr Hornady SP is running a theoretical 1,655 fps at 400 yards, and sitting at 1,216 lb-ft or energy.
The .357 Max, however, didn't make that much energy at the muzzle (only 1,155), and the 180 gr bullet has already dropped below 1,600 fps before the bullet hits the 50 yard mark.

Comparing trajectory of that second example:
The Max is done at 300 yards (even that is stretching it), and the bullet has dropped almost 56" with a 100-yard zero.
Same zero with the Whelen, and it'll easily carry enough velocity to work to 450 yards; and the bullet still hasn't dropped as much at 450 as the Max had at 300 yards.

...And that's just when looking at the .358" Hornady 200 gr SP. Stuff some Barnes 225 gr TSXs in there, and the BC jumps to .359 instead of .282. That 'small' change makes a huge difference.
Even with the 225 leaving the muzzle even slower again - at 2,700 fps - it is still carrying more energy at 500 yards than the Max had at the muzzle, and more velocity at 500 yards than the Max had dropped to at 50 yards.


And for the blatant 'mistake' above:
Why are my .357 Max velocities so "low" compared to a lot of internet talk about what people are getting out of their rifles? Because the commonly-available bullets aren't designed for those 1,800+ fps impact velocities.
If loaded for velocity and longer-range use, the Max isn't suitable for shots on game up close. And if loaded for reasonable velocities, to allow use up close, then range is quite limited.
.35 Whelen, on the other hand, works from muzzle to 450+ yards.
 
The above are all valid ways of looking at your question "what can the Whelen do that the Maximum can't?". I like to look at it this way: With the Maximum, you could take on deer-sized game out to 200 yds. Not only because the Maximum doesn't have the needed energy farther out, but because the trajectory is not adequate to consistently hit a deer-sized target in a vital spot at more than that. I have watched silhouette shooters with a 357 Maximum revolver loaded with 160 grainers ring rams at 200, other times they go down. Compared to a 44 Mag loaded with 240 grainers that will consistently take rams down at 200. Raise bullet weight and you drop velocity, making it more complicated (more energy, worse trajectory). I understand the fascination with the lower recoil of moderate-powered cartridges, just realize that they are limited in energy and cannot match a real rifle cartridge.

So, do you want a plinker? 357 magnum is easier to find and costs less to load. Do you want a hunting rifle? Get the Whelen. IMO, the 357 Maximum is a very specialized cartridge to get a little more out of a 357 revolver for target shooting or medium game hunting. Once you put it into a rifle it doesn't stack up very well.
 
Wow

22 posts to compare a pistol round to a rifle round.

Yes 357 max is a hot round. It's still a pistol round vs. a rifle round. They happen to be the same diameter, the similarities do end there.
 
So, do you want a plinker? 357 magnum is easier to find and costs less to load. Do you want a hunting rifle? Get the Whelen. IMO, the 357 Maximum is a very specialized cartridge to get a little more out of a 357 revolver for target shooting or medium game hunting. Once you put it into a rifle it doesn't stack up very well.
Click to expand...
Would explain why there aren't a lot of .357 Max rifles out there then.

I guess if 200 yards is the max and the biggest game it can take is deer, then there's no reason to get a .357 Max over a .357 Magnum in a rifle.

If there's one thing this thread has given me, it's more appreciation for the .35 Whelen.
 
I have .357 MAX in a 16" handi rifle and in a 14" CVA Scout pistol. The Handi has a telescoping butt that looks just like an M-4 army rifle.

Grandkids between 6 and 16 can adjust the stock to give good individual fit. I load .38 wad cutters and .357 Jacketed HPs for the kids to shoot. a .38 wadcutter has no recoil and is a delight for youngsters to shoot. A .357 Mag makes enough recoil and noise to impress teenagers. A .357MAX loaded with a 200 gr. cast bullets at max loads is a good 200 year deer and pig cartridge and makes a lot of noise. On a bench, it will blow away chronographs in the lanes on either side.

If, IF, you can find .357 MAX cartridges, be prepared to pay dearly for them. It is strictly a handloaders proposition.

Having said all that, i would not take a MAX after any thing larger than a deer or the middling bears we have around here.

If I was tough enough to shoot full pressure high velocity .35 Whelan loads, i would chase elephants with it.
 
Cartridge cases don't kill game, bullets do. There isn't anything the Whelen can kill that the Maximum can't, depending on the range. What the larger Whelen case does for you is add velocity, i.e. range. Shooting a 200 gr bullet out of a 18" barrel will give you about 2000 fps at the muzzle, and still has over a 1,000 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards. The Whelen can safely shoot a 200 gr bullet at 2800 fps, leaving you with 1,000 ft-lbs of energy at 460 yards.
 
I think I see what the op is after here. The deciding factor here for me is the lack of availability of the maximum brass. Other than that the ability to shoot .38s and .357 is a draw to get one.

I like the .35 Whelen a lot. Came really close to buying one and it is truly no where close at distances greater than 150 to 200 yards.

But if you are like me and load a lot of .38/.357 mag and most of you hunting shots are sub 100 yards then the most accurate rifle is best. Not the most energetic.

People will condescend and tell you you can download the Whelen to do anything a m.357 max can do. I am not so sure that it will do it as accurately or efficiently. Often times rifles are not the same if they are running out of their "sweet spot"

Who here has downloaded a .35 Whelen to .357 max levels?
 
"comparing apples to zucchini". Golden! I gotta remember that one.
Ok, back on topic. I am glad the Whelen got a little ink here. It is a fantastic cartridge.
 
The more I look the less I accept your "no truth in that" comment nosecondbest. While You Can Get .357 Max There Is not A Whole lot out there that I see. And right now is not 6 months or a years from now. Component availability it fleeting these days. There is plenty of convertible 3006 out there for the Whelen. .357 max brass is far less common.

There is TRUTH there:D
 
The strength of the Whelen Is being able to shoot much heavier projectiles. I and load the 250 grain Nauslar partition for example to just under 2500 ft./s. Don’t think you can get anywhere near that bullet weight or velocity out of a pistol cartridge
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top