.357 Maximum vs .35 Whelen

T

TruthTellers

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I was thinking about these two .35 caliber cartridges the other day and I was wondering: in a rifle, does the decent power of .357 Maximum and the versatility of being able to shoot .357 Mag and .38 in it make up for the lower velocities compared to the .35 Whelen?

Also, what could one realistically hunt using either?
 
It might be better to compare the 357 Herrett [30-30 case modified] to the 35 Whelen. As I understand it, the Whelen is a 30-06 case - running a 200 @ 2700fps. The Maximum about 1800fps [the latter from Contender data]. The Herret will to 2000 from the same Contender barrel.

My guess is about what you'd hunt with a 44mag. You'd be dependent on bullet selection and placement. The pistol JHP wouldn't be worth much. Also, my manuals are showing .357 for the diameter of the pistol and .358 for the rifle. I would say bullet selection will be your biggest hurdle.
 
You seem to be asking if the .357 's in a rifle would be equivalent to the .35 Whelen. The Whelen of course is an '06 case necked up to .35, and a similar question might be if a .30 carbine is equivalent to an '06. Obviously not of course. Some time back there was discussion of the .35 Whelen vs the .350 Remington mag, and the winner was the Whelen. I do have both calibers in model 700s and I had previously favored the .350 Rem. So I don't think that the .357 's in a rifle could in any way challenge the Whelen, if I'm interpreting your question correctly.
 
I've owned/own a good number of .357mag and .357max rifles and handguns over the last forty-seven or forty-eight years, and they are one of my favorite calibers. I've killed over fifty deer with the .357mag in a handgun alone. That being said, there is simply no comparison between that caliber and a .35 Whelen. Absolutely none what so ever. Don't just look at bore size and think there's any comparison to be made. It's like asking if a .22lr and a 22-250 are comparable. It's an apple vs oranges comparison.You need to think about what the intended use is and what your needs are. Then pick the one that fits.
 
condor bravo said:
You seem to be asking if the .357 's in a rifle would be equivalent to the .35 Whelen. The Whelen of course is an '06 case necked up to .35, and a similar question might be if a .30 carbine is equivalent to an '06. Obviously not of course. Some time back there was discussion of the .35 Whelen vs the .350 Remington mag, and the winner was the Whelen. I do have both calibers in model 700s and I had previously favored the .350 Rem. So I don't think that the .357 's in a rifle could in any way challenge the Whelen, if I'm interpreting your question correctly.
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It's not a power or energy question because, obviously, the .35 Whelen is going 1000 fps faster than the .357 Maximum would be out of a rifle.

My question more has to do with if you had to choose between the two, for hunting and plinking for fun, which would be better?

Tell me what the .357 Maximum can't do that the .35 Whelen can out in the field and lets limit that field to North America.
 
No. There's no comparing the Maximum with a Whelen. A 180 grain bullet out of the Maximum runs about 1968 FPS. A 180 out of a Whelen starts at a bit more than 2500 FPS. The most important part is that you can buy Whelen ammo fairly easily. The Maximum (considered hand gun ammo)you'd have to hunt for.
 
T. O'Heir said:
No. There's no comparing the Maximum with a Whelen. A 180 grain bullet out of the Maximum runs about 1968 FPS. A 180 out of a Whelen starts at a bit more than 2500 FPS. The most important part is that you can buy Whelen ammo fairly easily. The Maximum (considered hand gun ammo)you'd have to hunt for.
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I'm a reloader, so that doesn't apply to me lol.
 
Okay, what can Whelen hunt that Maximum can't effectively hunt?
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We're getting into the realm of the absurd here. You can kill anything in North America with a .22lr if you shoot it in the eye. Get your reloading manual out and compare the two cartridges for muzzle velocity, muzzle energy, trajectory, and bullet weights and it's pretty obvious to anyone what the differences are. I can't imagine that you can't see the difference between the two.....it's night and day. No one is going grizzly bear hunting with a .22lr, they're going to get something more appropriate and it's not going to be the .357max. The .357max is pretty much a caliber designed to be used at less than a hundred yards and the .35 Whelen is still going strong at over twice that distance. That's why we have different calibers and cartridges. You pick one for its intended purpose and design. The .357max was not designed to be used for hunting large bear or mountain sheep at long ranges. That's just the way it is...whether you reload or not.
 
NoSecondBest said:
We're getting into the realm of the absurd here. You can kill anything in North America with a .22lr if you shoot it in the eye. Get your reloading manual out and compare the two cartridges for muzzle velocity, muzzle energy, trajectory, and bullet weights and it's pretty obvious to anyone what the differences are. I can't imagine that you can't see the difference between the two.....it's night and day. No one is going grizzly bear hunting with a .22lr, they're going to get something more appropriate and it's not going to be the .357max. The .357max is pretty much a caliber designed to be used at less than a hundred yards and the .35 Whelen is still going strong at over twice that distance. That's why we have different calibers and cartridges. You pick one for its intended purpose and design. The .357max was not designed to be used for hunting large bear or mountain sheep at long ranges. That's just the way it is...whether you reload or not.
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I don't know what either are capable of, it's why I'm asking. If the .357 Maximum is a whitetail only kind of cartridge, then fine, but if the .35 Whelen can't do bear, elk, moose effectively... then it doesn't really interest me. If it can, then it does even though I'll probably never hunt that game.
 
"Okay, what can Whelen hunt that Maximum can't effectively hunt?"

I wouldn't worry on a Kodiak Bear hunt with the Whelen but there's no way in hell you'd ever get me to even consider the Maximum for that job. No way that Maximum is gonna outperform my Whelen with a 225 gr. TSX. Be a lot more comfortable on a moose of big bull elk with the Whelen as well.
Paul B.
 
Paul B. said:
"Okay, what can Whelen hunt that Maximum can't effectively hunt?"

I wouldn't worry on a Kodiak Bear hunt with the Whelen but there's no way in hell you'd ever get me to even consider the Maximum for that job. No way that Maximum is gonna outperform my Whelen with a 225 gr. TSX. Be a lot more comfortable on a moose of big bull elk with the Whelen as well.
Paul B.
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That answers my question.

So for the game that .357 Maximum can take most effectively, it could probably done just as well with a .357 Magnum, yeah?
 
Hmmmm, let me guess, I think the real reason behind your post is that you have an opportunity to buy a Whelen and just need some encouragement. Go for it.
 
I've owned/own a good number of .357mag and .357max rifles and handguns over the last forty-seven or forty-eight years, and they are one of my favorite calibers. I've killed over fifty deer with the .357mag in a handgun alone. That being said, there is simply no comparison between that caliber and a .35 Whelen. Absolutely none what so ever. Don't just look at bore size and think there's any comparison to be made. It's like asking if a .22lr and a 22-250 are comparable. It's an apple vs oranges comparison.You need to think about what the intended use is and what your needs are. Then pick the one that fits.
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Good post.

I am running 220 Speer's at 2625fps in my 35 Whelen, I think that load is a little hot, and 250 Hornady's at 2475 fps. Which is a little slow, I wanted 2500 fps with 250's. See if any 357 handgun round can do that.
 
The Maximum is in the same class as the .357 Herrett and .35 Remington as far as power. Great for deer and hogs but not ideal for larger game. The .35 Whelen is good for anything on the North American continent. You can always download the Whelen to Maximum/Herrett/Remington (or even .357 Magnum) levels.
 
I was wondering: in a rifle, does the decent power of .357 Maximum and the versatility of being able to shoot .357 Mag and .38 in it make up for the lower velocities compared to the .35 Whelen?
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No.

So for the game that .357 Maximum can take most effectively, it could probably done just as well with a .357 Magnum, yeah?
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No.

No, just asking cuz curious.
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2,900 fps at the muzzle with a 200 gr bullet designed for such velocity.
Vs. 1,600 fps at the muzzle with a 200 gr bullet, NOT designed for such velocity.
You're comparing apples and zucchinis, and you know it.

.357 Max to .35 Whelen is bean sprouts to rare prime-rib.
 
IMO the .35 Whelen wins in versatility over the .357 Max. I have never owned a .357 Max, but there isn't anything I'd use the Whelen on that I wouldn't use the Max on to hunt. However, you need to realize that the .357 Max is going to change drastically the ranges at which I'm comfortable taking game.

Continuing with the versatility theme lets talk rifles. .35 Whelen can be had in several different types of rifles like single shot, bolt, pump, lever, and semi auto. You don't have a whole lot of options in the .357 Max, basically just a single shot without throwing crazy money at a one in a kind rifle. If you want a .357 Max performance in a rifle without being as limited on rifle actions then get the .35 Remington.

So lastly you need to think of bullet options which has been touched on here a bit. Both rifles have the ability to use the same caliber bullets. However, the .357 Max can't be loaded up to .35 Whelen levels. The .35 Whelen can be loaded down to probably even .38 SPL levels using cast bullets and the proper powders, and can hit around 2700 fps with 225 grain bullets. The .357 Max just can't match this kind of performance period.

So unless your state hunting regulations requires you to be restricted to a straight wall cartridge of a certain length there is no real reason to pick the .357 Max over the Whelen. The .357 Max is a good cartridge for those who need it, the .35 Whelen is better for those who don't. I currently don't have any .35 Calbier rifles in my stable, but have owned .35 Rem, .358 Win, and .35 Whelen, I also have a couple of .357 Mag revolvers in the mix.
 
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