357 Magnum load question

Vet66,

Hornady's load development system is unclear to me. The manual claims a pressure test gun is used to develop the loads, but their velocities are all from commercial rifles instead of taking advantage of the test gun barrel to get a velocity the way ammo manufacturers and powder companies and Lyman do (in most instances). What I suspect is they do what Speer does, and that is develop loads in the commercial firearm, watching for pressure signs and aiming at particular velocity bands, then send ten of the warmest of these for pressure testing to make sure they haven't gone over SAAMI's MAP value. If that comes off too high, they would back a load down, but if it comes off low, well, they had their other signs, so why raise it up if they are happy with the velocity?

But that's just a guess. I have observed they (Hornady) will have maximum loads on the same page that vary from about the same as other sources who are using their bullets, to more than 10% below those other source. Mind you, pressure varies exponentially with powder charge, so 10% less powder is producing somewhere in the range of abut 15-30% lower pressure, depending on the powder characteristics.

In Hornady's defense, I'll also note that the old copper crushers are known to give readings that vary over 20% from one facility to the next, so it's actually possible, on the old equipment, to get that kind of disagreement. The modern Piezo transducers have about half that variability, though. Also, if it were just a matter of different instrumentation, you'd expect the data to be higher as well as lower than everyone else's, but I find it is rarely higher. There was an example of them having a load that was higher than Alliant's recently. Pistol load of 2400, I think. But is was lower than Lyman's number.
 
Unclenick,

I was at the range this morning, loaded those Hornady 158XTP bullets. I tested them in the S&W 686 4" as follows: Distance 12 yards hand held.
AA2400 @13.8gr Federal 200 SPM primers: 3" group 4 rounds (one flier)
AA2400 @13.8gr CCI 550 SPM primers: 2.5+" group 4 rounds (one flier)
IMR4227 @13.8gr Federal 200SPM primers: 2.0+" group 5 rounds
IMR4227 @13.8gr CCI 550 SPM primers: 2.25" group 5 rounds
IMR4227 @16.1gr (Lyman data MAX) CCI SPM Primers nice group with some stringing 2.50" 5 rounds.
All cases with a heavy roll crimp (Redding)

I know this is not the best way for testing but, ok for me. Very happy with the 4227 powder, very clean with mild recoil. 2400 powder although good accuracy has too much spit back and, what it burns is dirty. It is very old powder, perhaps that is the problem with it. It was a good day.
 
I know that some documentation still lists CUP, but do you think that any of the labs still use that system?

I'd really love to see one single entity doing all testing, rather than a number of them randomly w working up loads that m at mean nothing without context. I read a load once that gave super velocity for .357, and found out that it was tested on a bolt breached 8inch test barrel.
 
I guess I was suffering under the delusion that Hodgdon stopped putting the IMR label on '4227', and that the only game in town is now H4227...

It's the other way around. The "new" IMR4227 is the "old" H4227 and the product named H4227 has been discontinued. Hodgdon claims that the "old" IMR4227 and H4227 were never the same.

Thanks,

I told you I was suffering under a delusion...

:cool:
 
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