.357 Magnum from a Long Gun

W

WestWA Hunter

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I have recently acquired a Winchester M94AE in .357 magnum. Not my first '94 and probably not the last. The question I have is I'm trying to find some information concerning .357 ballistics from a 16 1/2" barrel. I can find info on 3" to 6" but not for a carbine. Can anyone help? Also, does anyone have any experience with the '94 in .357 accepting .38 Special?

Thanks.
 
Most reloading manuals have .357 loads for rifles. The first two I pulled off the shelf had them: Hodgdon (20 in bbl) and Lyman (18 1/2 in bbl).
 
sensop, that's just plumb mean! :D (I'm glad I never do sumpn like dat.)

Art

PS: Go on, tell the kid how fast does it go...
 
Thanks for the info. I will check the reload manuals now that I know they have the data I want.

Art,
No offense taken at sensop's reply (he's right and I got the info I wanted). Besides, I enjoy being automatically underestimated - it gives me a distinct advantage.
 
.357 magnum from a long gun

I have both the Trapper in 16 1/2" and the Legacy in 24". I load 16.6 grains of 296,sp mag primer and a 158 grain Remington SP or 158 grain Hornady XTP HP. Both are accurate with the Legacy having the edge at 100 yards.
What has been anyone's experience with deer and the .357 in a carbine or rifle?
 
Aw, heck. I wuz just teasin', not underestimating! Anyway, I was waiting for a bullet weight or something ...:)

So, here is some real info.

Hodgdon | 158 gr | H4227, 13.0 - 15.0 gr | 1410 - 1605 fps | 20 in Marlin barrel, no twist rate given

Lyman | 158 gr | IMR4227, 12.2 - 16.1 gr | 1340 - 1690 fps | 18 1/2 in Marlin 1894, 1:16 twist

Can I come out of the dog house now, Art? ...:p

Spectre, a .454 Casull will hurt you coming out of a 16 inch barrel, just like it does coming out of a 7 inch one.:D Thatsa what it'll do!
 
I'm still not sure why people lug around a rifle chambered for a pistol cartridge. If you like levers and worry about recoil, get a 9422, a Marlin 39 or a Henry; a lot cheaper way to plink.

Jim
 
I like the idea of a pistol caliber levergun, I just wish they didn't cost so much.

When you compare the amount of gun you get for the price in .30-30 and .357 Magnum, it's no contest. You can pick up an old .30-30 in good shape with relative ease; I never see used .357 rifles, though I guess I could look harder...

I still think it would be neat to have a gun in .357 for plinking, and think it would make a decent truck/light-duty/knockaround rifle. Again, it's the price that puts me off.

I've always wondered if there's any gain in velocity from .38 Special fired in a .357 levergun. Can anybody shed some light on that? I'd appreciate it...

-tubeshooter
 
tube shooter, you could go to Beartooth Bullets website for factual information on the 357 carbines. Their 185gr 357 bullet has the same diameter meplat as the Keith designed 44semi wadcutter. That means the same wound channel at the same velocities. That's why the 357 carbines are effective killers. That bullet took an elk at 135yds out of the 357 carbine and total penetration thru both shoulders. It also accounted for one out of a six inch revolver in 357. Oh, that bullet will run near 1800fps+ out of a Marlin carbine. Why does any one carry a pistol caliber carbine around? Maybe they know what they are doing instead of guessing with prejudice. It'll make 1450 out of a med frame 6"revolver as well.
 
While we are talking 357 mag rifles and Beartooth Bullets in the same thread... Has anyone ever seen any load data for shooting a .358 250 grain lead flat nose gas checked bullet out of a 357 rifle? That bullet leaving a 22" NEF rifle at 500 or 600 fps (if possible) would make a nice "don't want to wake the neighbors" varmit gun. I would guess a light enough charge of bullseye or red dot would get the job done, but I leave guessing to braver reloaders than me. I've had too much negative experience with cb caps and the like to trust a light bullet at low velocities to end varmit problems in poor shooting conditions.
 
I appreciate the response, RugerNo3. One of these days I'll probably pick up a .357 levergun, I've always wanted one....

If one shoots and carries .357 in a handgun, I think the carbine to match is a decent idea....same goes for .44 Mag, and the people with .44 Mag leverguns (there seem to be more of them around) seem to *love* theirs, generally speaking.

I guess maybe some hunters see these guns and figure they're easy targets for scorn, I don't know... it's true that there are better hunting gun choices, but I see a lot of "just-for-fun" shooting potential in the .357 carbine.

Another quick question for the board: Are roundnose lead or hardball loads a bad idea in these tube-feeders? As 'puny' as many make this gun out to be, I'm still quite sure a chain-fire would be very bad news indeed....and if it's not recommended, then there goes a lot of the cheap .38 ammo you can't shoot.... :(

-tubeshooter
 
.357 Magnum in Rifle

I would like to see cronograph data on various .357 Magnum factory loads from the following Winchester rifles:

Model 94 Trapper 16" barrel
Model 94 Trails End 20" barrel
Model 94 Legacy 24" barrel

Try these with 125 grain through 158 grain jacketed and hard cast lead bullets.

Is that not a good subject for a magazine article?

What's my point?

The .357 Magnum designed for handguns has relatively small case capacity limiting the amount of powder. My guest is that the velocities of the .357 Magnum from a 24 inch barrel would be slower than from a 20 inch barrel. I suspect the 16 inch barrel would provide optimum performance from the .357 Magnum.

However, there may be some possibilities with reloading a slower burning powder in the .357 Magnum, that is IF you can get enough in the case.

Now I would really be interested to see Winchester chamber their Model 94 for the .357 MAXIMUM. Remember Ruger tried this in a stretched Super Blackhawk and the high pressures caused severe barrel throat erosion. However, the rifle would not have that problem and would be better suited for the .357 MAXIMUM.

Any comments?
 
.357 magnum from a long gun

Some years ago , T/C chambered the 357 Maximum in their carbine(21"). It is very accurate. I agree the 94 would be good in 357 Maximum.
 
I am not familiar with most of the guns mentioned here, but I am looking for a .357Mag in a Pump Rifle, and the only one I'm aware of is the Timberwolf's. If any of the guns mentioned below is a pump rifle, let me know!!!

Thanks.
Albert
 
You made me do it. Marshall Stanton likes the little 357 Carbines. His hot load is .359" BTB 185gr FNGC, 16gr H110, WSPP, Win Brass, 1864 out of a 20" Marlin carbine. It will do 1400+ out of a 6" revolver. Paco Kelly says 17gr 296 and the 180gr Rem HP is 2000fps out of a 24"rifle. Another of MS's lite loads is .359"BTB 160gr FNBB, 6.2gr AA#5, WSPP. any 38SPEC Brass, 1237fps out of the 20"carbine. Sight this load dead at 75yds, it'll be +1.5 at 50 and -1.7 at 100. Velocity will be over 1000fps at 100yd and will cut a .75" wound channel down to about 800fps. Feral animals beware. These bullets have a .28" meplat. That's the same diameter as the 240gr Keith 44SWC. The 357 bullet will cut the same diameter wound channel at the same velocities as the 44Mag. As I stated in the above post, this load took an elk at 135yds and blew through both front shoulders. The same load out of a 6"revolver took an elk. They run in the 40-42KCUP range.
 
As far as barrel length vs. powder goes, my 16" trapper and a case full of W296 under a 125 gr. generic remchester hollowpoint with a magnum primer means a very satisfying fireball.

Moderately warm .38 special jacketed loads are like shooting a .22.
 
As I am not a hunter, just a "paper-puncher" I decided with my aquintances that we go out of the "357 Mag-in-a-rifle"-discussion. We bought punching-irons (about .40 caliber)at Home-Depot and meet every Saturday at the range. Who's first running up 25 yards with the iron (uphill, for sure), punching the paper-target with the iron and a hammer thoroughly, wins. It safes a heck of ammo and therefore, money.

If we are so unlucky to meet a Kodiak-Bear in Nevada, we will throw the punching irons in the direction that beast appears and run for our lifes.

We are well organized!
 
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