357 magnum for deer?

[Deja vu]

My first deer was with a 357 magnum Marlin. Most of the deer (Mule deer)I harvest now are with a 357 magnum Marlin. I try to limit my shots to 50 yards but most of my shots are off my back porch so I have a rest.

It depends on the type of hunting you do. In the thick Forrest the 357 should work great, for hunting out in the plains it would not work well cause it is a short range gun.

I would recommend using bullets 158+ grains.

Other than the 357 magnum I typically harvest deer with a 45/70. I have killed a few deer with a 30-06 but that is when hunting in southern Idaho where it is mostly long shots.

 

[Salmoneye]

I dropped the hunting knife and drew and pumped four 158 gr XTP's at near contact distance into his lower chest .... not one of those exited, btw ..... he went down on the last one for good. Call me underwhelmed by the "power" of the .357 Magnum.

Hornady loaded 158gr XTP cartridges are the HP version which are soft and designed to open at handgun velocities (700-1400fps)...They are not meant for hunting large animals...They are meant as defence rounds...

The Hornady 158gr XTP FP (Flat Point) are designed for higher velocities (1200-1800fps), and thus do not open much at handgun velocities...For all intents and purposes, they act as a solid out of short barreled handguns, and IMNSHO would have exited your deer if fired broadside from your handgun...

Choose the correct bullet, and you will stop being 'underwhelmed'...

 

[2damnold4this]

I guess it would be just plain stupid to point out that plenty of people have survived being hit by a single shot with a .357. Plenty of documentation. If a man will survive, what about a deer?

People have been shot with 7mm Remington magnums and survived. That doesn't mean the 7mm magnum is an inadequate deer cartridge.

The .357 seems a little better on paper than a 177 grain patched round ball out of a .50 caliber muzzle loader. I think it's fine so long as people recognize its limitations.

 

[briandg]

The .357 seems a little better on paper than a 177 grain patched round ball out of a .50 caliber muzzle loader. I think it's fine so long as people recognize its limitations.

My father hunted deer with a .45 kentucky rifle, never fired a shot at one. I believe that the .451 ball was 138 grains? I never liked the idea of hunting deer with it, I didn't trust the round ball at unknown velocity to kill. It also bothered me that he settled on a low charge.

critters have died at the hands of hunters with every firearm back to tossing round pebbles from an iron pipe with black powder. Success is good, but it sometimes is owed to extraneous influences.

Recognizing limitations is sort of a universal fault of humanity. Two things come to mind.

The darwin awards, and the reality show due in this fall called "Hold my beer and watch this!"

 

[dlb0412]

Yes if you pick a good controlled expansion bullet that is 180 grains. Put it through the heart or lungs and it will work just fine. Shot placement is important make a good shot and no problem at all. Anyone who says its not affective knows nothing about hunting or firearms. There our better options out there but the 357 will take deer cleanly with the right load and shot.

 

[NoSecondBest]

I guess a good gut shot with a 458 mag is way better than a lung shot with a 357 mag. I'm beginning to think most of the negative responses are from people who carry a big gun, can't shoot, and haven't harvested many deer. I also suspect most of the negative commentors don't believe that archery should be a legal method of hunting...not enough energy to drop them in their tracks! Very few of the comments are from people who really have something to base their opinion on. There have been some good comments from those who have done it and most of the negative comments are from those who read about it. Tell you anything?

 

[johnwilliamson062]

What is the drop on your hot 180 or 200 grain 357 load at 100 yards?
If you don't know you def shouldn't be shooting one at a deer past 50 yards.
If you know and you know at 90 and 80 and 70 and 60, then go ahead.
a 458 mag is going to drop... IDK, 100 yards is well within PBR for a 125 or even 150 zero so it is irrelevant.

 

[briandg]

You're wrong, in my example. I am a hunter. I don't gut shoot with a .458. I believe in using the most certain method possible to dispatch an animal humanely, and that means using a full powered weapon accurately.

No, I'm not particularly a fan of bowhunting.

Being hit with a broad head is really bad; you slice a hole about an inch in diameter all the way through, and the thing bleeds to death fairly quickly, if you hit plenty of circulatory points.

A lot of rifle kills will drop where they are from direct heart or central nervous system hits. I've never heard anything about animals dropping dead in their tracks after a hit with an arrow.

So, I don't think bowhunting is as humane as rifle hunting, and I won't do it. I'm not going to go into the woods knowing that the best I can do is put a deer on the ground and make it bleed to death over several minutes. It's legal, so whoever wants to can do it.

There is a point I'd like to make. a few years back, a study showed that bowhunters average between 3 and 4 shots taken for every hit. With such poor accuracy, one has to wonder how many hits actually go where they should be, instead of into the poor thing's testicles, for example.

It's pretty obvious also that a lot of people here don't want their decisions to be criticized, so they attack their critics and say that they're ignorant spewers of nonsense.

I'm through. I couldn't care less if the old fella buys the handi rifle anymore.

 

[mavracer]

What is the drop on your hot 180 or 200 grain 357 load at 100 yards?

For the record with a 100 yard zero a 180gr xtp at an easy to reach 1600fps is never more than 2" high out to 100 yards and is only 2" low at 120.

 

[Coyote_Buster700]

Warbirdlover: YMMV

Yams Make Me Vomit?

A lot of rifle kills will drop where they are from direct heart or central nervous system hits. I've never heard anything about animals dropping dead in their tracks after a hit with an arrow.

I've seen lots of pros do spine shots on antelope and other plains game like
that. Usually from close range.

You're right though I do view bow hunting as less humane than hunting with HPR. I took my largest Buck with my bow however, it ran about 30 yards.

It's all about shot placement. I have friends that hunt with .270's and 300 short mags, that have had lost of deer run further.

 

[SHR970]

Do your Oregon and Cali deer have access to pretty much unlmited food year round (Winter wheat, alphalpha, corn milo and soybeans piled on the ground 6 months out of the year)? Do the 2 1/2 y.o. deer there average 200#? Or are they scratching for pine cones in the snow for 3 months a year?

Western Oregon doesn't usually have snow on the ground for more than one month unless you are in the higher elvations. Western Ore. and Western Wa. are known as the Grey Northwet for a reason. So.Cal. mountains are pretty much the same; snow doesn't hang around long. Food is plentiful for them, the area dictates how plentiful and how much variety. Remember, Cali. has a lot of farm land.

Mature muley bucks on average are bigger than heavier mature white tail. The large muleys are easily 100 lbs. heavier than the largest whitetail.

 

[Keg]

I'm beginning to think most of the negative responses are from people who carry a big gun, can't shoot, and haven't harvested many deer. I also suspect most of the negative commentors don't believe that archery should be a legal method of hunting...not enough energy to drop them in their tracks! Very few of the comments are from people who really have something to base their opinion on. There have been some good comments from those who have done it and most of the negative comments are from those who read about it. Tell you anything?

This is about an older gentleman wanting to make good clean shots out to 100 yrds with a single shot....He wants to go cheaper and still be ok....
I'm sure a box of 180 grn xtps costs a good bit more than a box of 30-30 rounds at Wallyworld....The NEF gun would be about same price..probably....

I never shot a deer with a 357..38 special..or a 22....
I have with a 44 mag (357's daddy)....I would rather use Paw-Paws 30-30 any day.....I shoot 2-3 deer every season and many hogs....I have used many different calibers over the years....I have magnums and non-magnums....I use em all.....

 

[briandg]

I just don't know what I would recommend. He's looking for inexpensive and convenient. I'd go used. I'm thinking that a decent lever gun in .44 magnum or 30-30. This may be problematic if he wants a scope. Out to 100 yards, I'd want a scope, maybe only a fixed 4X, but I just don't know what he's looking for or needing.

I don't think that it is necessary for the fella to buy a bolt in 308 or so is necessary, he is, as it is, looking at short distance woods shots.

It could be that a pump shotgun in either 20 or 12 gauge with slugs, 20 if he is arthritic, non magnums in the 12, would be good.

The only limitations on slugs is that they're not as accurate as a centerfire rifle, and 100 yards may be the farthest he'd want to shoot with one. Sights, unless he gets a dedicated slug gun, may be a problem.

No matter the cartridge, I wouldn't particularly care for a singe shot unless it was at least capable of 2" at the 100 yard mark. I never want to take a second shot, and the accuracy of a rifle is a big part of whether or not a second shot will be needed.

 

[B.L.E.]

My dad used to get his limit every year with an old '94 Winchester chambered for .32-40. This old round was factory loaded with 165 grain bullets driven at about 1500 fps if I remember correctly. About the same power as a .357 magnum.
Of course he understood the limits of that gun and refused to take long yardage "hail mary" shots with it.

 

[briandg]

the 32-40 would actually be a slightly better deer round, I suspect. here's why I think that.

First, the rifle .357 will be at 1800 or so with a 180 bullet. The 32-40 will have a longer bullet, higher sectional density, and the 170 grain loads are capable of reaching 1700 or higher, even to 1900.

With a good bullet, the .32-40 will give good penetration. With a better ballistic coefficient, it will retain velocity far better than a blunt nosed .357 bullet. It will shoot flatter and hit harder at ranges beyond 100.

Under 100 yards or so, I think that it really is a wash. sometimes the .32 caliber soft point will outperform the .357 in a solid or stoutly built soft point. There will be other times when the .357 may perform better.

Without a solidly built 180 grain bullet, or at least 158, the 32-40 will probably be superior. Given a choice, I'd prefer the 30-30 to either with a 170 grain 30 caliber bullet at about 2k fps.

 

[PawPaw]

I'm sure a box of 180 grn xtps costs a good bit more than a box of 30-30 rounds at Wallyworld....The NEF gun would be about same price..probably....

Yeah, probably. NEF was acquired by Marlin several years ago, then Marlin was acquired by Remington and availability became spotty. When I started looking for a .30-30 Handi-Rifle for an article I wanted to write, I had a heck of a time finding one locally. I finally had to order one, and waited about 6 months for it to come in. They turn up on the used shelves from time to time, but they're normally available in these parts in either .223 or .45-70. The other calibers might be as scarce as hen's teeth. For that matter I've never seen a .357 Handi on the racks, although I"m told that they exist.

I'm thinking that a decent lever gun in .44 magnum or 30-30. This may be problematic if he wants a scope. Out to 100 yards, I'd want a scope, maybe only a fixed 4X, but I just don't know what he's looking for or needing.

That's actually great advise and based on my local perusal of the gun racks a lever in .30-30 is really easy to find. Good working examples are a great value and if he gets a solid top, like the Marlin or Mossberg (or an old Revelation), it's easy to mount a scope. A decent 4X can be had for about $100.00 and the combo should make a fine deer rifle.

 

[chucknbach]

100 yds or less. Most definitely yes! MV of 1830 with a 158 gn bullet is carrying 785 ftlbs of energy at 100yds, wyosmith's 187 gn at 1876 carries 997 ft lbs at 100, enough to kill a deer. Lot of people look at the ballistics for the pistol and think it;s the same for the rifle.

 

[chucknbach]

No. I don't think anything under 1500 ft. lbs. should be used for white tail. I am not saying it wont kill a deer, but to be fair a .22lr will kill a deer i just think its irresponsible to take something that weak out in the woods.

I think it's irresponsible to think in hunting that power is the equilizer.

 

[davem]

Old Fart: I think it was Phil Sharpe who came up with the 357 magnum and when the first S&W came off the racks he went out and killed a moose with it. Sharpe had a really good book on reloading and what the load was I cannot say but I wish I had that book. Sharpe considered OAL but also the base of the bullet (square/boattail, etc) and how much space the base occupied in the case- which is what really effects pressure- it was a great book.
ON THE OTHER HAND, since folks are talking about experience..I've shot turkeys with #6 shot right at 50 yards- good hit in the botton neck area and they ran- should have had #4 or maybe #5. Or hevi-shot. On the trapline I've shot yotes with 22LR at point blank and not always liked the results. So.....perfect set up- perfect shot- the 357 is okay but generally you are going to handicap yourself and the game isn't as plentiful as yesteryear- you will be kicking yourself if you lose a good animal because the load wasn't up to the task.
If you have to downsize how about a 12 gauge pump with a spare rifled barrel for sabots- you can hunt deer, ducks, turkey- use for home defense.

 

[Hamour]

My .357 mag Marlin performs very well on deer and hogs with the 180 WFN bullet cast out of Lyman # 2 alloy. A top load of H110 will drive it to 1800 + FPS. It will penetrate and expand at these velocities. I have lost animals due to low penetration using 158gr jacketed hpts and soft points. Just too much velocity for the bullets, but 158gr hpts make good defensive rounds out of the rifle.