.357 mag vs FBI Protocol

A

Archer 9505

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Is there any commercial manufactures that produce .357 Magnum ammunition designed to meet or exceed the Full FBI Protocol test. I know Hornady makes the "Critical Defense" line in .357 mag but that ammunition (as I understand it) was not designed to meet or exceed the barrier test ; wall board, sheet metal and auto glass.
 
It's not 'Critical Defense'...It's 'Critical Duty':
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Hornady makes Critical Defense and Critical Duty lines of ammunition. The Critical Duty was designed to meet or exceed the full FBI test, barriers included. The Critical Defense is not designed to meet the barrier test. Checking Hornady's web site, they do not make Critical Duty in .357 mag.

Is there a manufacture that claims to make .357 ammunition that has been specifically designed to meet or exceed the full FBI test, barriers included?

Critical Duty, Ranger Bonded are designed to meet the full test but to my knowledge are not made in .357 mag.
 
Out of curiosity, why are you concerned about the barrier penetration? The reason I ask is that barrier penetration is primarily of concern to LEO's (this is who the FBI tests are geared towards) and most private individuals view them as secondary to bare gelatin and clothed gelatin performance.

That being said, I suspect that most .357 Magnum loadings would do quite well in the barrier penetration tests as .357 Magnum is fairly well known as a very penetrative cartridge. One of the reasons for the cartridge's development in the 1930's was to offer better penetration of auto bodies than the other common police cartridges of the time (mainly .38 Special). You are unlikely to find very many .357 Magnum loadings that were specifically designed for the FBI barrier penetration tests because by the time the FBI tests were first conducted, the .357 Magnum and other revolver cartridges were already being replaced by semi-auto cartridges like 9mm and .45 ACP for police use.

Understand, however, that the .357 Magnum is a cartridge that can often do things that it may not have been specifically designed to do because of it's ability to throw a medium-to-heavy-for-caliber bullet at relatively high velocity. Were I particularly concerned about barrier penetration, I'd probably look at a .357 Magnum loading which uses a similar bullet design to a 9mm or .357 Sig loading that does well in the barrier penetration tests such as Speer Gold Dots or Winchester PDX1 Defender. That being said, I suspect that the Critical Duty .357 Magnum loading would probably still be OK in the barrier penetration tests because it uses a 125gr bullet which is heavier than the 9mm (115gr), .357 Sig (115gr), .38 Special (110gr), .380 Auto (90gr), or 9x18 Makarov (95gr) Critical Defense loadings.
 
Cor-Bon DPX? They claim it's designed to penetrate 12"-17" and conquer auto glass and steel. Everything I've seen (admittedly on the Internet) seems to support their claims. The biggest downside is the price, since the all copper Barnes bullet isn't cheap.
 
The below loads are all suitable for defensive scenarios. How well they will perform against the seven FBI protocol barriers remains to be seen and tested.

  • W-W 180gr Partition Gold
  • W-W 145gr Silvertip
  • W-W 125gr PDX1
  • Federal 140gr Vital-Shok
  • Federal 130gr Hydra-Shok
  • Federal 158gr Hydra-Shok
  • Corbon 125gr DPX
  • Hornady 125gr, 140gr, 158gr XTP
  • Hornady 140gr FTX
  • Speer 125gr, 158gr Gold Dot
  • Remington 125gr Golden Saber
 
Hornady makes Critical Defense and Critical Duty lines of ammunition.
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Yes...I realize that...

When I said "It's Critical Duty", I was referring to the review...

I do apologize though, as I 'assumed' that 'Duty' was offered in .357 Mag...
 
I've never understood why people put such faith in the FBI or their tests. Compared to the average LE Agency they get into very few gunfights and historically do poorly in gunfights. Remember the Miami-Dade FBI shoot out? Nearly every recommendation they made to others failed miserably when they tried it in a real gunfight. Check and see what .357 load was/is used by a local larger city and you'll likely get ammo that has really done well on the street.
 
Just about any 125 -158 Grain 357 HP ammo out there is going to work very well. Understand though that all bullets are not created equal. As previously stated most 357 development was pre-FBI protocol.
 
I would say the Winchester 145gr Silvertip would do well in the FBI protocol test. I like a round between 140 to 158 gr.
Howard
 
I was never much on letting the FBI pick my ammo. They don't work like I did. They don't know what I need and what works fo rme.

Find what works for you, in your gun, that meets your needs.
 
You know, I see the recomended depth of penetration for almost all the rounds is getting very close to the same. You really have to make a .357 Magnum open like a parachute to get it slowed down that fast, or, start with alot less velocity.

Also, seeing some of the bigger guys on the street that may be a potential threat, I'm not sure the 12-14" penetration is always going to get to the vital organs, particularly if it has to go through a massive bicep before it gets into the torso. Or, 14 inches of belly fat.

I'm beginning to think that those "optimal" penetration depths are designed more out of liability than real world desired performance. I may be wrong, but, I'm getting a little curious.

I personally have never heard of a round penetrating a bad guy and seriously injuring, or killing, a non combatant. Missed rounds are alot more dangerous than overpenatrating rounds. I'm sure its happened, but, if anybody knows of real cases, I would be interested.

When I carry a .357 Magnum, I carry Remington 158 GR HP. Been around a long time. Good street creds. Doesn't beat the gun to death, hits to point of aim. I think the 145 Silvertip is another dandy round.

For example, the Speer Gold Dot short barrel .357 Magnum sends a 135 GR bullet out at a blistering 990 fps. Really? They actually call that a .357 Magnum? I'm sure its a decent enough round, but, thats .38 Special (barely) +P territory.

I'm sure the FBI has some great ideas, not sure if there is not another motive to thier specs though.
 
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If it will kill a deer at 100+ yards from a 4" barrel it should do the job on a boogerman breaking into your house at dark thirty in the morning or trying to rob your shop and you fire over the counter at less than 10'. FBI numbers make interesting reading and is a good way to compare apples to apples but in my little corner of the world first thing is can I hit the target? If you aren't hitting the target then it doesn't matter how much horse power you have or how many layers of wall board, denim and glass it can penetrate. .
 
For example, the Speer Gold Dot short barrel .357 Magnum sends a 135 GR bullet out at a blistering 990 fps. Really? They actually call that a .357 Magnum? I'm sure its a decent enough round, but, thats .38 Special (barely) +P territory.
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That is really a specialized load intended to be shot out of the ultra-lightweight .357 Magnum snubs.
 
Remember the Miami-Dade FBI shoot out?
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Where a single 9mm bullet was made the scapegoat for everyone's pathetically poor tactics and execution. And of the protocols that were adopted afterwards; how many would have changed the outcome of that particular engagement????? ZERO :cool:

How many 32, 380, and 38 rounds carried in a typical CCW gun would pass all of the tests???? Probably zero.

And in the O.P.'s 357, what are the chances that he will be shooting a B.G. through his windshield? The answer had better be not at all otherwise he has done something seriously wrong. And even so, the 357 with virtually any HP self defense round will pass the test anyways. They will also blow through car doors at 100 yards, 1/8th inch steel at 50 yards, and many other barriers that someone may be hiding behind. My friends and I have shot a through a large variety of targets including flak vests, car doors, bullet resistant glass, Corian, sheetrock, plywood / sheetrock, 4"x4"'s, fire rated doors, empty 20 lb.s propane cylinders, and even a refrigerator. a 357 has plenty of penetrating power.
 
For example, the Speer Gold Dot short barrel .357 Magnum sends a 135 GR bullet out at a blistering 990 fps. Really? They actually call that a .357 Magnum? I'm sure its a decent enough round, but, thats .38 Special (barely) +P territory.
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This round was made for personal protection, and it has more punch than a 38+p. They are not a stout a round as a full throttle 357, but offer less muzzle flash, and muzzle jump. I'd say it's a good compromise round. Especially for light snubbies.
 
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