Para Bellum
New member
Gonzo
fine, whenever I make it to Columbus, I'll let you know...
Stay safe.
fine, whenever I make it to Columbus, I'll let you know...
Stay safe.
.357 Mag: Performance loss with barrels under 4" ?
- Thread starter Para Bellum
- Start date
Person of Interest
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Para Bellum, nice to have you on board. I always enjoy reading the thoughts and experiences of shooters from outside the U.S.
In reality there is very little to choose between the 9MM P and the .357 Magnum if restricted to factory ammo. I have clocked Federal 115 +P+ from my Model 39 at 1,250 FPS. I suspect that factory loaded 125 grain .357 ammo doesn't go a whole lot faster than this.
Now, if we want to compare calibers using handloads, the situation changes. There isn't much to be gained over the +P+ 9MM load and there wouldn't be much point to it if we could. This is a very effective defensive load and it's what I carry in my own pistol.
The .357 however, has much greater case capacity and will have greater velocity potential. Period. It's simple physics. Just today I shot some of my .357 defensive loads through a 2.5" Model 19 S&W because I had not chronographed this load from less than a 4" barrel and I was curious. From a 5" Model 27 these rounds go about 1,700 FPS. Yes, they are very warm but so far I have had no trouble with them in any of my guns. They are used sparingly in the K frames. The first shot over the screens brought up a reading of 1,571 FPS. The flash and blast from the short barrel is severe but the recoil, while sharp, is managable. Other shooters came down the line to see what I was doing and they were fairly impressed with nearly 1600 FPS from the short 19. This load is probably more than one needs for defensive use and it clearly, even from a short barrel, beats the hot 9MM loads.
Arguing back and forth about the 9MM, the .357 and/or the .38 Special is really rather pointless. All of these calibers can do the job. My usual carry gun is a hi-cap 9MM but will also pack a snub .38 and sometimes a 3.5" Model 27 just for fun.
I never feel under-gunned.
In reality there is very little to choose between the 9MM P and the .357 Magnum if restricted to factory ammo. I have clocked Federal 115 +P+ from my Model 39 at 1,250 FPS. I suspect that factory loaded 125 grain .357 ammo doesn't go a whole lot faster than this.
Now, if we want to compare calibers using handloads, the situation changes. There isn't much to be gained over the +P+ 9MM load and there wouldn't be much point to it if we could. This is a very effective defensive load and it's what I carry in my own pistol.
The .357 however, has much greater case capacity and will have greater velocity potential. Period. It's simple physics. Just today I shot some of my .357 defensive loads through a 2.5" Model 19 S&W because I had not chronographed this load from less than a 4" barrel and I was curious. From a 5" Model 27 these rounds go about 1,700 FPS. Yes, they are very warm but so far I have had no trouble with them in any of my guns. They are used sparingly in the K frames. The first shot over the screens brought up a reading of 1,571 FPS. The flash and blast from the short barrel is severe but the recoil, while sharp, is managable. Other shooters came down the line to see what I was doing and they were fairly impressed with nearly 1600 FPS from the short 19. This load is probably more than one needs for defensive use and it clearly, even from a short barrel, beats the hot 9MM loads.
Arguing back and forth about the 9MM, the .357 and/or the .38 Special is really rather pointless. All of these calibers can do the job. My usual carry gun is a hi-cap 9MM but will also pack a snub .38 and sometimes a 3.5" Model 27 just for fun.
I never feel under-gunned.
Para Bellum
New member
Person of Interest
Thank you for your kind post. That's what I meant. Given the information posted above, I see no reason to prefer a snub .357 Mag. over a subcompact 9x19mm for ballistic reasons. Personal preference of course is - personal - and can't be judged or reasonably commented by others (like me).
Happy Easter!
Thank you for your kind post. That's what I meant. Given the information posted above, I see no reason to prefer a snub .357 Mag. over a subcompact 9x19mm for ballistic reasons. Personal preference of course is - personal - and can't be judged or reasonably commented by others (like me).
Happy Easter!
Ballistically, the .357 is far superior to the 9mm and offers far more options for loads, bullet weights, etc. The revolver has the luxury of being able to reliably "cycle" loads of widely varying power. But for a semi-auto to function reliably, the power of the load must be carefully matched to the spring rates of the gun, otherwise the 9mm can come to a stop in a hurry.
I'm ok with using 9mm for defense (and I occasionally do when I need my small Kahr PM9 for pocket carry), but I much prefer the vast capability of the .357 to launch 158 gr. loads with bone breaking force... even 180 gr. hunting loads if desired.
The .357 can reliably function with everything from snakeshot, to super light .38 spl. target loads, all the way up to hot 180 gr. hunting loads with a wide variety of bullet shapes, sizes, and types. It's capable of plinking, light target practice, all the way up to taking game, like deer. Not something you'd want to do with a 9mm.
The 9mm is very, very limited in what it can reliably run with. Not that the 9mm is a bad choice, it's just an extremely *limited* choice.
The .357 revolver is much more versatile and reliable under extreme conditions where the 9mm semi-auto would stop dead in it's tracks. (Ever wonder why the Navy Seals selected the S&W 686 for mucky, wet conditions? Reliability with a wide range of bullet weights, types, and load velocities under a wide range of wet, sloppy conditions... including under water!) Sorry, the 9mm semi-auto has it's place as a defense gun, but it can't hold a candle to .357 for versatility, reliability with a wide range of ammo loadings and bullet types, and capability of firing heavy weight loads. FTE's and FTF's don't happen with revolvers. Magazine springs don't go bad with revolvers, magazine lips don't get deformed or bent with revolvers, recoil springs don't weaken with revolvers.... there is a LOT to be said for the .357 revolver that a 9mm semi-auto just can't match.
I'm ok with using 9mm for defense (and I occasionally do when I need my small Kahr PM9 for pocket carry), but I much prefer the vast capability of the .357 to launch 158 gr. loads with bone breaking force... even 180 gr. hunting loads if desired.
The .357 can reliably function with everything from snakeshot, to super light .38 spl. target loads, all the way up to hot 180 gr. hunting loads with a wide variety of bullet shapes, sizes, and types. It's capable of plinking, light target practice, all the way up to taking game, like deer. Not something you'd want to do with a 9mm.
The 9mm is very, very limited in what it can reliably run with. Not that the 9mm is a bad choice, it's just an extremely *limited* choice.
The .357 revolver is much more versatile and reliable under extreme conditions where the 9mm semi-auto would stop dead in it's tracks. (Ever wonder why the Navy Seals selected the S&W 686 for mucky, wet conditions? Reliability with a wide range of bullet weights, types, and load velocities under a wide range of wet, sloppy conditions... including under water!) Sorry, the 9mm semi-auto has it's place as a defense gun, but it can't hold a candle to .357 for versatility, reliability with a wide range of ammo loadings and bullet types, and capability of firing heavy weight loads. FTE's and FTF's don't happen with revolvers. Magazine springs don't go bad with revolvers, magazine lips don't get deformed or bent with revolvers, recoil springs don't weaken with revolvers.... there is a LOT to be said for the .357 revolver that a 9mm semi-auto just can't match.