.357 mag Deer Loads

NoSecondBest said:
Check out David Whites forum. He and Mike Bellm are pretty dedicated specialists who promote cartridges like the .357max and use bullets such as the XTP in many of their loads. Both gentleman have years of experience in this area. They also recommend other bullets and loads also. David White uses the Hornady XTP's and drives them at high velocities as I do. If they'll hold up to 2300-2600fps in a rifle, they won't come apart in a handgun. I'm sorry if I come across as egotistical, but I've been loading, hunting, and testing these bullets for many, many years with great success. Is anyone wants to disagree they are free to do so. However, I'll stand on my personal experience and the experience of others who've done the same thing and report the same results.
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I never said anything at all about the bullet failing because of it's chances of "coming apart". My reasoning is solely based upon penetration at .357 handgun velocities. You insist upon continuously introducing the .357 max shot from a rifle at velocities of at least twice that of a .357 from a revolver, as proof one should use the same bullet. Kinda like comparing a .177 pellet pistol to a .17 HMR rifle, just cause they use a similar diameter projectile. Guess maybe all of us with .17HMRs should use a BB, eh? Like you, I stand on my opinion, but unlike you, I won't dismiss your opinion as incorrect, because it's just something I'm just repeating from the internet, altho it sounds like this is what you are doing when mentioning the David White's forum. I too have a lot of experience with XTPs in not only .357, but every other handgun caliber I shoot. While they are a good bullet for the money, they are a far cry from the best there is. Many folks who hunt whitetails extensively with .357 handguns prefer a Hardcast bullet, not for the expansion, but because of the penetration. I mentioned Speer's Deep Curl line of bullets. In .357, I prefer them over even the 159 XTP-FP for deer. They just seem a tad more accurate, a give me a tad more velocity with the same powder charge. They also are designed not for rapid expansion, but controlled expansion with deep penetration.

Your experience with .357 max is extensive, but really has little or no bearing here.
 
I'm not going to continue beleaguering the point here. After shooting over fifty white tails with the .357mag using a handgun, I've come to actually believe I'm somewhat of an expert myself. I know there's probably someone, or several people out there, who've shot more deer with a .357mag than I have......I just haven't met them yet. Anyway, since you seem to be determined to be the expert here with the last word.....just take it and be done. I'll stand on my history with this cartridge in actual use. Bye.
 
buck460XVR said:
Iffin you read Hornady's description, they are also designed for SD .......and according to the chart, at anemic .38 special velocities. This is the problem with most 158 gr HPs for .357, they are primarily designed for SD. That is why most manufacturers also have a SP in their line at that weight. Exception is Speer's 158 gr Deep Curl HP, but that is a bonded/plated bullet and not a traditional cup and core jacketed like the XTP. As I said earlier, I prefer a bullet in .357 for deer, that expands minimally and penetrates deeply. The 158gr. .357 bullet is low on weight, low on velocity and thus, low on momentum. Dumping that minimal amount of momentum by expansion means less penetration. A minimal amount of expansion, IMHO and a .40 caliber hole all the way thru a deer, is better than a .45 caliber hole halfway thru, or stuck in the shoulder. Others are free to feel differently. I don't have a problem with what other folks use or their opinion. We all have different scenarios as to how and where we hunt. Blood trailing a deer over a snow covered field is different than blood trailing one thru deep cover and swamps. The buck I shot back in the late 80s was shot from a tree stand. It was shot behind the shoulder from a slight rear angle. I watched it drop right before I lost sight of it in the swamp. Because of the high entry wound and no exit wound, there was no blood trail at all. When I opened the deer up to field dress it, the body cavity was full of blood from a double lung shot. A few yards more could have meant a unrecovered deer without a blood trail. The little bit of difference of expansion would have made no difference. An exit wound would have.

Again, folks need to use what works for them, what they feel confident with and what they are most proficient with. They also need to respect the right of others to do the same without chastising or questioning the experience of someone they don't have a clue about.
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According to the engineers at Hornady - the XTP hollow-point was designed as a field round.


And even when you drive them 100 fps past their design impact velocity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJk_YHO6hDk

They still performs beautifully.​




Red
 
Pretty chart, would be nice if there was some explanation of what "Performance" meant.

All I see is a list of bullets and velocities, which doesn't mean much to me.

I shoot .357 out of 6" and longer barrels, Up to an 18" carbine. And for serious things I shoot loads that aren't suitable for ALL .357s. My experience is that a 158gr JSP opens up a bit less than a JHP at the same speed.

I've never found a need for 180gr .357 bullets (and the only use I have for them is light weight bullets for .35 cal rifles.

Put the bullet in the right place, expand, or not, and you will get the deer. But best way to get to the exact right place differs due to bullet construction, and velocity. Choose a bullet intended for what you want to do.

And choose the shot to match that. IF you lose a deer because "the bullet failed", consider if it really was the bullet's failure, or that of the shooter, choosing to take a shot beyond the ability of what he was shooting.
 
I don't know where as I would use 180 gr bullet for pistol deer hunting at close range. 158 gr. would be a better choice~ I think. Don't take much bullet weight to roll a unsuspecting deer under 100 yrds ~just a well placed single shot to the ribs at first squeeze.

My suggested powder for 357 use.
296 or AA #7_ Both I found will give acceptable {hunting range} accuracy.
 
Fair choices, though AA No.9 might be considered. Since I've been using 2400 for the past 40+ years, I'll just stick with it.
 
I could live with 2400 if that's all I had. You can use it in a lot of different cartridges and it works well. It's one of my top choices for .357mag, 44mag, and even 45-70. I'll put that down as #3 on my list.
 
+1 for 158g xtp hollow points and 2400.

I used these some in a .357 Maximum Contender. I can’t tell you the velocity, but they were far above what Hornady recommended. On the advice of others 2 decades ago, I tried them and verified for myself they blew a big hole in the other side... they are stout and didn’t go “varmint” explosive, even many hundreds of FPS above recommended.

158 slung very very very hot in the Maximum Contender and hot in a 5 1/2” Blackhawk. Normal load in a marlin carbine. They held up no matter how fast. I can’t see how anything could be better; they work.

That said, I used the 180s in the carbine. Honestly, I couldn’t tell the difference.

I have mostly full boxes of Cast Performance hard cast at 180 and 187 grain. I ended up deciding that if I wanted to take bone-crushing shots, the .45 Ruger 240 grain loads were better for me.
 
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