357 for Deer Hunting

I've shot over fifty deer with a 357mag in various handguns and another seven or eight with a Marlin lever gun. I have yet to lose one deer shot with this caliber.

This is called empirical data. It happened and I did it. Most of the responses you get to this question (it comes up about once a week on one of the boards) come from internet experts who give R&R responses (Read and Regurgitate) or someone who knew someone who knew someone......not really first hand. I've shot most of those deer with Hornady 158g XTP bullets and the bullets performed very, very well when used within reasonable distances and at reasonably high verlocities (all within book parameters). I have a number of recovered bullets that I've saved over the years and have posted them on here and other sites. One other thought: anyone who shot one or two deer with the 357mag doesn't have enough data to make a fair assessment and it needs to be noted what degree of proficiency that shooter had. If you can't hit a kill zone sized target at the distances you intend to shoot you shouldn't be hunting with that gun. If you need to use a rest to hit the target, don't shoot at a deer without using a rest. Find out what your abilities are and work within those boundaries.
 
I Second "No Second Best"

Although I have never hunted dear with a .357 Rifle, I have hunted and killed dear with both my K Frame Model 19 S&W with a 6" Barrel and my N Frame Model 27 6 1/2" Barrel. When hunting with a handgun I used what I considered to be Archery distances, so get within less than 60 yards and as close to 40 if possible.

Also agree, if you need a rest to place accurate shots, use one.

I have hunted with a Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine and wish I still had it. Much nicer to shoot then my 8 3/8" Model 29.

Bob
 
The Internet is a wonderful place, where you can learn so much!

For instance, one of the things I've learned that, while the 125gr .357 Mag is the best manstopper on the planet, deer sneer at anything less than a 180gr bullet!
:confused:
(I've also learned that the GLock is the best handgun ever, for everything, and that isn't true, either....)

You don't need pointed bullets, you don't need hollowpoints (although the do work just fine), what you need is for YOU to be able to put the bullet in the right place, at whatever range you are going to shoot.

My Dad only used one kind of .357 ammunition, Winchester 158gr Luballoy. Many whitetails went from being deer to being venison thanks to his skill with a 6" Highway Patrolman and that Winchester SWC bullet.


What you need most is to study deer anatomy, so you can recognize, from any angle where the vitals are. And how big an area of the deer that is.

Then you need to practice your shooting, so you can put your bullet right there. Oldtimers in the Adirondacks where I hunted growing up, used a paper plate as a rough guide. No matter the range, no matter the gun, if you could hit the center of a paper plate, you could hit the heart/lung area of a deer.

If you could do it at 50yds, but not at 100, then you shouldn't shoot at 100. Simple, and it works.

The whole "100 max, maaaybe 150 if you're really good" thinking comes from the ability of most people using iron sighted revolvers and/or lever action carbines. NOT the power of the .357 itself, despite what many think.

Note that the guys shooting steel pigs, chickens and rams shoot out to 250 or 300 meters. In fact that's where the 180gr bullet comes from. Silhouette shooters using the .357 mag discovered that the usual 158gr bullet would only topple the long range ram target (250 meters?) with a absolutely perfect hit. The 180 has the extra momentum to topple the ram better (with a good hit).

In the game field, the 180 could be better in certain situations than a 158/160gr, although I've never seen one, personally, I allow those situations could exist. But that doesn't justify, to me the almost blanket recommendation of the 180gr weight over the 158 that I hear on the 'net.
 
For instance, one of the things I've learned that, while the 125gr .357 Mag is the best manstopper on the planet, deer sneer at anything less than a 180gr bullet!
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The ideal penetration in self defense is 14-18 inches

In hunting the ideal is a pass through shot to get a good blood trail, even if the angles aren't perfect

That is why heavier bullets are preferable for use on animals

Shooting paper plates tells you a little about accuracy, but nothing at all about terminal ballistics

Shooting paper plates at whatever distance won't make a 357's terminal performance more than marginal at anything over 100 yds, and still give you a good chance of recovering the animal in many locations

Just because you can hit a deer at longer ranges doesn't mean you should try

As to your opening statement, you were the only one to mention a 180 gr bullet on this thread, other than one reference by Guv talking about the comparison to a 30-30

Everyone else recommended a 158 gr

What I've learned on the internet is people often don't read or comprehend what others say ;)
 
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I plan to deer hunt for my first time this year. I will be using my rossi 92 20" with speer 158gr half-jacket hollow-points, loaded hot. they are so close at my parents house, I wouldn't nee to go past 50 yards, and that's the gun I am most accurate with excluding .223's
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I killed one deer with a semi-jacketed HP bullet from a .44 mag. It started as a 240gr. The portion of the bullet that went through the vitals and killed the deer weight about 90 gr when it was recovered. I got lucky. I've never used a bullet since then that would not stay together on impact. I switched to cast SWC, and the to Hornady XTP when they hit the market. Semi-jacketed bullets don't stay together well on impact.
 
I've been using a Rossi 92 20" to kill deer for the last six years. 158gr. & 180gr. bullets. Both jacketed and cast. Most at 40yds. - 75yds. and one at 125yds..

Marginal my butt!:rolleyes:
 
a couple years back, MRS. cousin shot a very large MN buck at close range ( maybe 25 - 30 yards ) with a 12 ga slug, the slug hit a rib going in ( the engine room, blew out both lungs, & an exit wound between a soft ball & volley ball size on the way out )... deer ran full speed nearly a mile up a bluff ( this was along the Mississippi river in southern MN ) reads mini mountains... before it piled up... the area the deer was hit looked like all the blood dumped at the point of impact, pieces of lung were all over the ground... examination of the deer showed the slug grazed the heart & put a hole in it as well... Point being, sometimes deer can be hard to kill

if that had been a 357 magnum... it's very likely the deer would not have been recovered... I don't have a problem with people hunting with a 357, but I do feel it's "marginal" for most shooters ( animals have a way of fighting to get away, more than humans do )... don't get me wrong... it'll kill the deer, it just has a much more likely chance of being an unrecovered deer with their heightened sense of flight...

a 357 ( or any gun really ) can be helped by shooting within the shooters limits, & within a distance that maintains enough energy for full penetration ( in most circumstances ) & with a solid ( quality ) bullet ( not something that's going to come apart too easily ) I typically use as much gun as practical... I started out with a .243 & switched to 45-70... several years later I switched to handgun hunting ( because I can do that locally in slug zone ) & I use a 10" Contender loaded with hot 45 Colt loads firing 250 grain XTP's...

& BTW... if you shoot a deer, please have enough respect to do everything in your power to recover the animal
 
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Ran a mile with no lungs? I really find that hard to believe. I could see 100 yards maybe 200 yards tops but even a perfectly healthy deer won't sprint a mile at a time.

While whitetails do show tremendous will to survive that's a touch over the top. They are not bullet proof and the 357 is perfectly capable at reasonable ranges.
 
I dropped a deer like a "sack of potatoes" years ago with my taurus 608 6.5" 357 magnum at 80 yrds. I was holding red dot to the vitals and hit him in the lower neck and popped the spine.

But out here in NC the deer just don't amount to much. I'm used to Kansas bucks. A whitetail out west, I would not have taken that shot with my revolver. A mule deer lol, he'd have to be real close for me to take the clean shot.
 
I dropped a deer like a "sack of potatoes" years ago with my taurus 608 6.5" 357 magnum at 80 yrds. I was holding red dot to the vitals and hit him in the lower neck and popped the spine.
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If you were holding the red dot on the vitals and hit the deer in the neck, you got lucky. Obviously over you proficiency level at that distance. Next time you may not be so lucky. Better put some range time in before the next shot.
 
Funny is I own and shoot a raging judge magnum chambered in 454 casull, I was at the range the other day and a guy was shooting a 357 mag. I asked him to let me shoot it, after knowing what high power caliber rounds can do, and after I shot the 357 it felt like a 22. Point if i had to choose don't go with less than a 44 magnum.
 
I am going to use my .357 regardless, the bullets I have on hand are all speer half-jacket. all in the 148-158gr range. i was planning to use the bullet on the right, i have tested it twice on water jugs, it has great penetration and the jacket didn't shed the lead or punch through the mushroom like i thought a possibility. i figured being under 50yards i would be able to benefit from the hollow-point. but if most agree i should be using the flat-point in the middle or the SWC on the left, i can change my mind and practice more with those. i can also buy new bullets if needed, but i have a couple hundred of each of these. let me know what you guys think.

also remember that these are out of a 20" barrel and loaded a hair over max. i chrony'd most, i forget the numbers, but they were smokin', somewhere right about 1800
 
At 50-100 yards from a carbine it will pretty much do anything a 30-30 will do.
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One thing it won't do is make 900 ft/pounds @100 yards ...... which means it ain't legal to use here. YMMV.

.357 =/= .30/30..... not even close.
 
.44 mag

I killed more buck with a Model 29 S+W .44 mag than I can count. I would get a .44 mag and stay away from the .357 Of course it is my opinion but a deer is a hard critter to bring down. My .44 does the job really well but even so I don't shoot more than 50 yards. I am sorry to tell you but long range shooting of deer with a handgun is not cool unless you are using a rifle Thompson variety of handgun.. You tend to wound them and then have to chase them the rest of the day. I nail them in the neck around 50 yards out .. down .. no chasing. It is not as easy as one would think. I am 61 and hunted with a handgun for 40 years
 
You have to remember that 1800+ fps is much higher than those bullets were designed for, penetration could be very inconsistent. The least you should do is get a flat point of a heavier jacket construction, water jugs are not a good medium to gauge there effectiveness. Those old Speer half jackets 146HP/160FP are best suited for handgun use.
 
i was planning to use the bullet on the right, i have tested it twice on water jugs, it has great penetration and the jacket didn't shed the lead or punch through the mushroom like i thought a possibility.
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Water jugs are not very similar to a deer for any kind of meaningful testing. Even a rib cage shot will begin with the bullet likely hitting a bone before it can begin to take care of business, and penetrating water is much easier than penetrating flesh.

Of the bullets you have shown, the SWC might be my first choice, but I have no way of knowing if its a hard cast bullet loaded to full .357 potential, or if its a soft lead bullet loaded for a light target round, so without knowing that, from what you have pictured, the semi-jacketed flat point would be my choice of what you have. Having said that, if you are going to the time, trouble, and expense of a hunt, why not spend a few bucks more on good quality ammo, and safe the old leftovers for punching papaer and tin cans?
 
I killed more buck with a Model 29 S+W .44 mag than I can count. I would get a .44 mag and stay away from the .357 Of course it is my opinion but a deer is a hard critter to bring down. My .44 does the job really well but even so I don't shoot more than 50 yards. I am sorry to tell you but long range shooting of deer with a handgun is not cool unless you are using a rifle Thompson variety of handgun.. You tend to wound them and then have to chase them the rest of the day. I nail them in the neck around 50 yards out .. down .. no chasing. It is not as easy as one would think. I am 61 and hunted with a handgun for 40 years
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I think what is lost from the OP being posted in the Revolver Forum is that he is using a .357 carbine which perfoms more like your .44 mag than a .357 revolver, and probably better if the bullet selected is up to the task.

I do hear what you're saying though. I got tired of tracking deer I killed with my .44 Redhawk, and switched to .454 Casull some years ago, and I've not had to track one since. Like you I've been pistol hunting a long time, 30 years.

I've also learned another thing that enters in effective range arguements. When an Ohio deer hunter tells me he shot his deer at 100 yrds, I can usually pace it out in about 50 steps, so I must have a really long stride. :D
 
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