350 Legend
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NoSecondBest
New member
Peyton, I’ve shot a lot of bullets out of .357mag revolvers and rifles at deer and quite a few with my .357Maximum rifles. I can assure you that you‘ll have some problems if you shoot pistol bullets at the velocities you’ll want to be using with your 350 Legend. I’ve had some hold together and some just plain fail..and fail badly. Total disintegration. What you can use and what works on game animals are two different things. FWIW, most of the handgun bullets I’ve used were Hornady XTP HP and XTP FP. Even the FP’s failed at the high end of velocity using my Max. Google around and get some bullets designed for your gun if you’re going to use it for deer hunting. I know Mike Bellm (Bellm TC) is selling bullets designed for your gun that will hold up on deer. My .357Max is now using .358 rifle bullets which will handle the velocity better. Good luck.
It's a developing area (reloading the 350L) and I generally would echo what was said above. There are some solids, that at lower .350L velocities might hold up. But there are a good number of bullets designed for the 350L out now as well. Depends on your use.
I have only a few that I have played with to proof a barrel. By August, I should have some better info.
I have only a few that I have played with to proof a barrel. By August, I should have some better info.
But is it not a .357, it is a .355. Use of .357 Mag bullets is not recommended unless resized.
Normal SAAMI tolerances allow for the possibility of a bullet being a couple of thousandths over-groove. Military tolerances for .30 Cal allow for as much as 0.003" over groove diameter. However, accuracy is not enhanced by too much squeezing down. Bart B. will tell you that, for match rifle, just under half a thousandth of the bullet being over groove diameter was found to be optimal for rifle accuracy. For lead bullets, 0.002" is often optimal for accuracy in revolvers and lever-action rifles. It won't be a make-or-break thing to do, running your .357 bullets in your .355 bore (if that is what you actually have; slugging your bore might be a good idea at this point), just as long as you work your loads up from starting levels. The bigger concern is whether you suffer an accuracy loss or disintegration failure of the bullets, as already described.
SAAMI lists a bullet diameter spec of 0.3570. This was done specifically for stats like Indiana and others that require a minimum diameter of 0.3570 for straight walled rifle cartridges.
As I understand it the 350 legend was designed to use bullets from between .355 to .357, but I cant seem to find that data now. The sammi specs below list 0.0357
https://saami.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/350-Legend-Public-Introduction-Rev-2020-06-18.pdf
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Pontificating about what is written might be fun for you guys, but you are still giving bad advice on the .350 Legend. SAAMI lists a single number for almost all rifle cartridges. But for the .350L, it is listed as .3570 - .0030. New math or old math, that comes out to .3540. The trick is in the "-". 
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You yourself are pontificating... so you don't have room to talk there.Pontificating about what is written might be fun for you guys, but you are still giving bad advice on the .350 Legend. SAAMI lists a single number for almost all rifle cartridges. But for the .350L, it is listed as .3570 - .0030. New math or old math, that comes out to .3540. The trick is in the "-".
I still say a 147g 9mm hunting/defensive type bullet at those velocities is not a good idea...
So, why do they list a spec then subtract from that? it would either be .357 or .354... I'm have a hard time with the .354 as the listed groove diameter is 0.355, meaning the bullet diameter would be undersized by 0.001...... Not trying to be contentions, just not understanding here.... is it intended to be a min 0.354 to max 0.0357... what am I missing?
NoSecondBest
New member
The Legend is going to be very difficult to load for. It’s a .355” bullet diameter and at the present time I believe the only two bullets offered for it are Hornady’s .355 170g JSP rifle bullet, and Winchester’s .355 180g Power Point. I believe this gun isn’t going to have much appeal for reloaded with its limited bullet selection. Both of those bullets are simply too heavy to get much velocity out of. As I stated before, Mike Bellm is offering some proprietary bullets of his design for this cartridge. I briefly considered playing around with this cartridge when it first came out, but my .357max rifles leave it in the dust. Using 9mm handgun bullets in this gun simply isn’t an option if you’re planning on using it for deer. This last season I shot two deer at a measured 189 yards with my Max using a .358 180g rifle bullet and both dropped where they stood. I like to reload and develop accurate, hard hitting loads for deer and the Legend simply doesn’t allow doing that. It is what it is.....a decent deer gun using factory ammo at modest distances.
Expanding bullets for the 9mm are considered to be poor choices for serious work in the 350L due to potential overexpansion problems (with resultant lack of penetration). I am pretty sure most expanding bullets intended for the 357 mag have the same potential overexpansion concern.
Many 0.358" rifle bullets are also considered poor choices for a couple of reasons. Risk of little or no expansion is one of the problems.
350L bullet size has been hashed and re-hashed. It would be nice if people who have no experience based knowledge would be patient and leave this question to those of us who have figured this out.
The vast majority of the 350L guns have a bore of 0.355". Yes, a traditional bullet (not solid copper) up to 0.358" is fine for being pushed through a 0.355" bore with no problems at all. Even though this is a nice factoid, it does not make much difference in this situation.
The problem is that the chamber dimensions on a high percentage of the guns out there in combination with and the typical brass wall thickness in the neck region combine to prevent the gun from properly chambering a round loaded with a regular bullet 0.357" or larger.
And like most things the above does have a few (probably more like very few) exceptions. Some guns have been found to have chamber necks big enough to use 0.357" bullets with most brass and some select brass has been identified that has a little bit thinner walls (early Starline, but it was found to have other problems in some guns).
For those really wanting to use 0.357" bullets, there are a couple of workable (but extra cost and effort) solutions.
Many 350L reloaders use regular 0.357 bullets but then run them through a Lee 0.356" push through bullet sizing die. They seem to chamber pretty good and there seems to be no adverse impact with respect to accuracy or terminal function.
Another solution for using 0.357" bullets would be to turn down the necks on your brass. Although this would be certain to work, I have not heard of anyone doing this.
A third solution would be to have the neck region of you chamber enlarged to provide an adequate clearance (0.002" or so). This would be tricky and not something for most do-it-yourself types and I doubt many gunsmiths would want to take this on given the potential problems if the job goes wrong.
Using 350L specific bullets will get you both the correct diameter and where applicable will get you a bullet tailored to expand properly at 350L velocities. Several bullet makers had jumped into the 350L game and came out with with new products that seemed to work quite well by those that were able to find them.
With good bullets (350L specific, or select 0.357"/0.358" sized down), even the AR folks were able to achieve results very close to the 357 Max. Those with 350L break open guns and some bolt action guns were able to get nearly identical results since they could load to about the same AOL. Note also that all 350L guns are rated at 55 ksi (I think) where the 357 Max is only rated 40 ksi (that few seem to pay any attention to).
If the great component shortage had not interrupted everything, plenty of 350L specific bullets would be readily available by now. All reloading supplies are about as easy to find as unobtainium right now. Start searching now for anything you hope to buy. Expect to look wide and far and be mostly disappointed.
FYI, If you just want to hunt without a lot of target shooting, higher priced bullets are worth considering. Maker bullets have a line of 350L solid copper bullets. Their 350L specific 180 gr is in stock at $38 for 50.
https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=350LEGEND180REX
The 350L does have a downside. The fact that the 350L headspaces on the case mouth has created a lot of grief in certain situations. This can be tricky and there have been problems (notably even with some factory ammo).
There is a 350L group and a 350L reloading group on Facebook. Read back through the posts on these groups and you will find tons of real experience based reports on how effective the 350L has been and on how well reloading has worked out. The layout of these groups is however a PITA to weed through and as always, you have to assume a good percentage of what you read on the internet is shall we say "less than perfect" information.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/350Legend
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2237324616353981/?multi_permalinks=3684957181590710
Many 0.358" rifle bullets are also considered poor choices for a couple of reasons. Risk of little or no expansion is one of the problems.
350L bullet size has been hashed and re-hashed. It would be nice if people who have no experience based knowledge would be patient and leave this question to those of us who have figured this out.
The vast majority of the 350L guns have a bore of 0.355". Yes, a traditional bullet (not solid copper) up to 0.358" is fine for being pushed through a 0.355" bore with no problems at all. Even though this is a nice factoid, it does not make much difference in this situation.
The problem is that the chamber dimensions on a high percentage of the guns out there in combination with and the typical brass wall thickness in the neck region combine to prevent the gun from properly chambering a round loaded with a regular bullet 0.357" or larger.
And like most things the above does have a few (probably more like very few) exceptions. Some guns have been found to have chamber necks big enough to use 0.357" bullets with most brass and some select brass has been identified that has a little bit thinner walls (early Starline, but it was found to have other problems in some guns).
For those really wanting to use 0.357" bullets, there are a couple of workable (but extra cost and effort) solutions.
Many 350L reloaders use regular 0.357 bullets but then run them through a Lee 0.356" push through bullet sizing die. They seem to chamber pretty good and there seems to be no adverse impact with respect to accuracy or terminal function.
Another solution for using 0.357" bullets would be to turn down the necks on your brass. Although this would be certain to work, I have not heard of anyone doing this.
A third solution would be to have the neck region of you chamber enlarged to provide an adequate clearance (0.002" or so). This would be tricky and not something for most do-it-yourself types and I doubt many gunsmiths would want to take this on given the potential problems if the job goes wrong.
Using 350L specific bullets will get you both the correct diameter and where applicable will get you a bullet tailored to expand properly at 350L velocities. Several bullet makers had jumped into the 350L game and came out with with new products that seemed to work quite well by those that were able to find them.
With good bullets (350L specific, or select 0.357"/0.358" sized down), even the AR folks were able to achieve results very close to the 357 Max. Those with 350L break open guns and some bolt action guns were able to get nearly identical results since they could load to about the same AOL. Note also that all 350L guns are rated at 55 ksi (I think) where the 357 Max is only rated 40 ksi (that few seem to pay any attention to).
If the great component shortage had not interrupted everything, plenty of 350L specific bullets would be readily available by now. All reloading supplies are about as easy to find as unobtainium right now. Start searching now for anything you hope to buy. Expect to look wide and far and be mostly disappointed.
FYI, If you just want to hunt without a lot of target shooting, higher priced bullets are worth considering. Maker bullets have a line of 350L solid copper bullets. Their 350L specific 180 gr is in stock at $38 for 50.
https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=350LEGEND180REX
The 350L does have a downside. The fact that the 350L headspaces on the case mouth has created a lot of grief in certain situations. This can be tricky and there have been problems (notably even with some factory ammo).
There is a 350L group and a 350L reloading group on Facebook. Read back through the posts on these groups and you will find tons of real experience based reports on how effective the 350L has been and on how well reloading has worked out. The layout of these groups is however a PITA to weed through and as always, you have to assume a good percentage of what you read on the internet is shall we say "less than perfect" information.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/350Legend
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2237324616353981/?multi_permalinks=3684957181590710
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If a 357 bullet will easily/reliably chamber/extract when combined with the brass being used, use them.
The can-I/can't-I debate on the Legend is endless, and in my experience unnecessary.
See
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6760172&postcount=5
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6760366&postcount=23
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...egend-advice&p=4816659&viewfull=1#post4816659
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6776578&postcount=283
and if 356 works better, use that.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6765165&postcount=138
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6765240&postcount=142
Bottom Line: Get a 356 & 357 push through Lee sizer, some Imperial sizing wax, and feed the barrel what it likes.
FWIW I've settled on Winchester brass after also trying Hornady, Federal, and Starline.
I strongly recommend Winchester-- but that's another topic.
I'm always fascinated by that statement.
One is a 40,000psi cartridge with a case capacity of 34grn H2O.
The other is a 55,000psi cartridge with a capacity of 36.5grn H2O.
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NoSecondBest
New member
When its all said and done, it’s a no brained which one to get if you’re shooting a single shot....the .357max is light years ahead. Jumping through all the hoops just to get a usable deer load with the Leged is ridiculously complicated. It lacks just about everything and requires way too much effort just to get somewhat close to the .357max. The max is simply and “load and go” proposition. Lots of powders, cases, and bullets to choose from and you get great results.
MarkCO said:
You are misreading that "-" sign. It is what is called a unilateral tolerance, and is not a final value determiner. You will be familiar with the common plus and minus (±) tolerances given when an error in either direction has equal consequences. Unilateral tolerances are used in engineering when one direction of the tolerance range is more critical than the other, and in that case, the critical value is given, while the tolerance is given only in the safer error direction.
That is what SAAMI uses for linear cartridge dimensions. For a cartridge, too big is more critical than too small because too big prevents chambering, much less firing, where too small will chamber and often fire, but just won't perform well ballistically, and that is considered the more acceptable error. So all linear cartridge dimensions have the critical upper limit stated and the tolerance is minus some amount because of that fitting issue.
If you look at chamber drawings, the above is reversed. Linear chamber dimensions are critical if they get too small (again, preventing chambering), so those dimensions are given at the critical minimum value, and the tolerance is a unilateral plus (+) tolerance.
So, in the case of the 350 Legend bullet, the 0.357-0.003" specification means 0.357" is bullet diameter maximum and 0.354" is a ballistically performance-acceptable minimum. If you look at the 357 Magnum drawing, the jacketed bullet spec is 0.358"-0.003", or 0.355" to 0.358".
stagpanther
New member
I respectfully disagree with MeHeavy on the legend, I think it's an inherently poorly designed cartridge even though I can get very good groups with it in my bolt gun. It's basically a long thin-cased 9mm Lugar with everyone spinning it a new age miracle .357 IMO.
All that said, the very best results I've had--by a wide margin--are using winchester's own 180 gr power points.
All that said, the very best results I've had--by a wide margin--are using winchester's own 180 gr power points.
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stagpanther
New member
I'm moderately interested is seeing how fast/stabilized I can drive a small monolithic 9mm bullet with it.