.350 Legend AR-15 for bear defense possible?

M

MC_MuHyeon

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Hi. I have a huge interest in recently intruduced .350 Legend cartridge from Winchester. I plan to build an AR-15 hunting rifle chambered in that round, and I would like to know if the rifle is capable of bear defense in case of emergency. Of course, bear sprays are the most effective choice of all, but I would like to consider an alternative in case a spray can fails due to malfunction, etc. Any opinion is welcome.
 
This might be one of those "Bring your popcorn and beverage" posts.
The ballistics say its an OK deer cartridge,and should be fine.
Correct me if I'm wrong,but the bore /bullet dia is keyed more to 9mm bullets than .358 rifle bullets? I don't know much about the cartridge.

You can evaluate bullet weights and velocities and come to a conclusion about applying a cartridge to a scenario, but another critical factor is available bullets and how they will perform. 9mm "manstopper" hollowpoints may fail to give penetration ,especially when driven over 2000 fps.

I have not studied the cartridge ,components,or available ammunition to tell you much more than that. The right bullet will be the key.
 
Not sure what the point would be with other serviceable cartridges such as the 6.5G and the 458SOCO. But I am interested hearing the argument for it.
 
I have a huge interest in recently intruduced .350 Legend cartridge from Winchester. I plan to build an AR-15 hunting rifle chambered in that round, and I would like to know if the rifle is capable of bear defense in case of emergency.
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Beyond use on deer, it's really too early to say ... The .350L cartridge is still in its infancy in the field.

It was conceived as an AR-friendly cartridge for hunting deer and deer-size game (hogs?) in states that (a) allow semi-automatic rifles for hunting (with or without mag capacity restrictions) but (b) oddly restrict acceptable cartridge-types to those deemed 'straight-walled' in configuration. Some states have an 'approved' list of such cartridges; others leave it open-ended.

The .350L is also available in the traditional bolt-action platform.

Of course, the real twist with the 350L is its use of supposedly more 'potent' (i.e., wider and heavier) .35-diameter bullets. So - in theory anyway - the ability to throw larger, heavier bullets opens up additional huntable species to consider ... Lower-48 black bears?

The real question is the .350L's energy level for general 'bear protection' as against other available .35-cal cartridges, like, say, the .35 Whelen, which has proven itself very effective on bears, particularly the Alaskan bruins.

Of course, bear sprays are the most effective choice of all ...
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Only if you're predisposed to believe bear sprays are the 'most effective' over other defensive options. :rolleyes:

Ample evidence suggests sprays are marginal at best because too many variables (such as wind, distance, and speed of deployment) can and have interfered with the spray actually reaching the bear during a charge.

There is ample evidence demonstrating that firearms wielded by practiced users are more effective against aggressive bruins where the standard for determining 'effective' is whether the person survived the ordeal alive and uninjured.

... but I would like to consider an alternative in case a spray can fails due to malfunction, etc.
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Very wise ...
 
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I don't see why not, with the right bullets. The 147 gr hardcast 9mm bullets are penetrating 6 FEET or more in ballistics gel from handguns and have proven they will bring down Alaskan brown bear.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alaska-man-kills-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/

The 180-200 gr hardcast in 357 mag are even better and despite the old wives tales even common handgun cartridges are proving very effective in stopping both black, brown, polar, and grizzly bear.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/ha...r-attack-73-cases-96-effective/#axzz5xtx32P9Z

The question is, are good hardcast bullets and loads available for the 350 legend? But if those bullets work in 35/9mm caliber handguns, there is no reason they won't work in a rifle.
 
I would like to know if the rifle is capable of bear defense in case of emergency
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I suppose that it would be better than a slingshot, but there is nothing magical about this round. If you consider the 35 Remington adequate then this would fall into the same category.
Maybe OK on black bear...if you're charged by it's big brothers, you stand a good chance of getting your A** handed to you.
 
From American Hunter magazine: "Winchester is currently offering five different loads for the new cartridge: a 150-grain Deer Season XP at 2350 fps, a 180-grain Power-Point at 2100 fps, a 160-grain Power Max Bonded at 2225 fps, a very affordable 145-grain FMJ in the USA ammo line at 2350 fps, and a Super Suppressed 265-grain load at 1060 fps."

That first load, 150 grains, is very much like our old friend, the thutty-thutty. You'll have to decide for yourself about arguments with Mr. Bear. :)
 
"...sprays are the most effective choice..." It's actually a 12 gauge slug. If you can recognize the treat and hit Yogi, who doesn't need defending, in his central nervous system before he's on you. If your spray can fails, it'll be far too late. Yogi can run 100 yards in less than 6 seconds.
However, I'd be thinking 180 grain Power Point depending on what flavour of bear. Where you are matters most though. An AR may not be considered to be a hunting rifle by the local unelected civil servants who make these stupid laws.
"...from handguns..." Those requires a great deal more skill.
 
The 35 Remington is a great black bear round. The 350 Legend is almost as capable as the 35 Rem, one supposes. Ergo, in the extremely unlikely event that one were attacked by a black bear and had one's AR in 350 Legend readily handy, it would likely kill a black bear with proper shot placement.

For brown bears? As an alternative to being devoured alive, it would definitely work...
 
I guess 350 legend would be ok for Black Bear defense. It's basically a 357 maximum. It would not be my choice in bear country. All but the largest blacks are quite easy to bring down. It would be my luck I ran into the largest. I subscribe to the theory of overkill, so I would prefer 450 Bushmaster.
 
...but (b) oddly restrict acceptable cartridge-types to those deemed 'straight-walled' in configuration.
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The reason for "straight-walled" cartridges being o.K.ed for deer here in Michigan is that prior to the change, only shotguns were approved for deer hunting in Southern Michigan (Zone three) inasmuch as they were though to be short-ranged and not as much of a threat as traditional "deer cartridges" used in the more populous Southern part of the state. It was also legal to used handguns to hunt deer in the Shotgun zone. So, at some point, the DNR reasoned that if handguns were legal, it made sense to make straight-walled cartridge rifles legal also...which seemingly was the impetus for several new rifle cartridges with straight walls. So, there is nothing very strange about it except that the bottle-necked cartridges were always legal in the Southern zone for varmints.
 
Black bears are easy to kill. An average black bear is about 300 lbs. People kill them with 357s, so the 350 Legend would work well for that. Grizzlies are a different story. Average weight for a grizzly is about 600 lbs, browns can easily go 1000 lbs, and they can take a lot of stopping before they agree to stop.

I am baffled by the reliance on such a small cartridge in such a heavy rifle for such a critical task.
 
I don't see why not, with the right bullets. The 147 gr hardcast 9mm bullets are penetrating 6 FEET or more in ballistics gel from handguns and have proven they ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ can bring down Alaskan brown bear.
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Subtle but significant correction.
 
Three friends and I have been using that cartridge on game in bolt rifles and AR-15's I built for about 3 years now . You can use any .357 or some of the lighter .358 bullets in it . With 180 or 200 grain [ the 200 grain flex tip for the 35 rem ] bullets it penetrates very well in large pigs . It has gone clean through on pigs up to 200 lbs , and has killed a few close to 300 lbs . How that would translate to bears is up to your opinion , I have never shot a bear . It will do anything a 30/30 will do .
 
It has gone clean through on pigs up to 200 lbs , and has killed a few close to 300 lbs. How that would translate to bears is up to your opinion. I have never shot a bear. It will do anything a 30/30 will do.
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Sounds good for large pigs and no doubt deer.

That said, ... if all it's offering for bears is 'turdy-turdy' ballistics :rolleyes: , better have a buddy bring a .35 Whelen (or magnum rifle of some flavor) to decrease the risk if this 'new-kid-on-the-block' round fails to stop.
 
I've only downed two bears so I am not an expert. I hunted with a Marlin in 35 Remington shooting 200 grain core-lokt ammo and this combo sure did the job nicely. I think that a 350 Legend would be a good choice, too but multiple hits may be needed.

Jack
 
I own a couple of modern rifles in 35 Rem but have never fired factory ammo in them . My loads were always about 300 fps faster than factory , so they were stronger than my 357 L loads [ my name was .357 Bandit ] . After looking at figures of factory ammo , 35 rem does seem to be about the same as my loadings of the 357 L , and I use a 17.5 barrel . I even used a few of the same bullets . Mr Eastbank you then would like my .45 Bandit , a 300 grain at 2150 fps from 16.5 " . It hits hard enough to have "knock over " power on pigs . I you need even more power I do make the .500 Bandit , 500 g at 2200 .
 
if the rifle is capable of bear defense in case of emergency(Emphasis added).
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No.

500gr/50 Beowooof if you jus'gotta have an "AR-Type" action,
...else a plain old pump 12-gauge slug gun.
(also known as an updated Brown Bess)
:rolleyes:
 
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