.32NAA as good as a .38SPL?

I have hidden a 7" 1911-pattern pistol under a puffy "taffeta" casual jacket (Butt-down, muzlle up behind my armpit). If I can hide that and not have a single person spot either the piece or the shoulder holster, why does everyone want to carry a little pistol...
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That's really nice CapO. For a guy who's name alludes to a flare for stating the obvious, you seem to have lost your grasp. More to the point, we don't all wear puffy vests every day. Especially when it is 105 degrees. My wife sure as hell doesn't wear a puffy vest jogging, nor do I wear a puffy vest to the gym. I certainly don't wear a 7" long slide 1911 for a backup pistol either. I have successfully hidden a 7 1/2" inch Super Blackhawk before, but I certainly didn't stuff it in my gym shorts!


Incidentally folks, Google "Puffy Taffeta" and see what images pop up. Certainly looks like there would be room to conceal a 1911!
 
CaptainO,

Gentlemen: I never called anyone's parentage into question. Thanks for doing so this exposes your true colors.
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Given that I did not call your parentage into question, an apology is in order from you for which I shall await.

I'm sorry, I have to listen to people that worked in morgues and the results of real shootings, instead of the unvarying, static calibrations of the labratory.
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Entirely irrelevant, and this statement confirms your lack of knowledge of the scientific method in general, let alone the specifics of handgun terminal ballistics testing protocol. Laboratory testing strives to control variability to isolate the important aspects of the system under investigation. For a handgun bullet in tissue the most important terminal ballistics parameters are depth of penetration and cross-sectional area of the permanent wound channel, and pentration trumps hole size, because it you don't reach the vitals inside a big bad guy from a suboptimal shot angle you don't stand much of a chance of causing a physiological stop.

I also keep reading the results of barrel-length tests from BBTI. In general, tests of closed breech tests (barrels without a barrel/cyilinder gap) tend to produce higher velocities.
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Agreed. I think it's safe to say that BBTI data are bounding estimates only when using them to extrapolate to different barrel lengths on semiauto pistols and revolvers. It is better to compare two revolvers, for example, of different barrel lengths to get the muzzle velocity difference, then use this value to perform your interpolation.
 
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Limnophile,
I think that first one was for me. I suggested that rudeness might reflect poorly on one's upbringing.

That said, I DO owe an apology. Specifically to CapO's parents, whoever and wherever they may be. CaptainO's manners are his choice alone, and I was wrong to call their parenting into question.

Entirely irrelevant, and this statement confirms your lack of knowledge of the scientific method in general, let alone the specifics of handgun terminal ballistics testing protocol. Laboratory testing strives to control variability to isolate the important aspects of the system under investigation. For a handgun bullet in tissue the most important terminal ballistics parameters are depth of penetration and cross-sectional area of the permanent wound channel, and pentration trumps hole size, because it you don't reach the vitals inside a big bad guy from a subotimal shot angle you don't stand much of a chance of causing a physiological stop.
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^^^^ That.

I also keep reading the results of barrel-length tests from BBTI. In general, tests of closed breech tests (barrels without a barrel/cyilinder gap) tend to produce higher velocities.
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Hornaday says I can push a .357/125gr up to about 1950fps...but I have to sacrifice all ability to conceal it. It's a trade off. This is a hideout, hold out, backup, gym clothes kind of gun, not a primary service weapon. Besides, the difference between a sealed pressure test barrel and real world ballistics was fresh news...in about 1985. Today it is a pretty widely known thing, but that's why I quoted the 2.75" barrel length of the test pistol early on in this thread.
 
My apologies to anyone I may have insulted. I must, however, stand by my assertion that in many cases (cartridge cases, that is) the longer the barrel, along with the slower burning propellent, generally results in higher velocites.

The .32 NAA does not generate higher pressures than it's parent cartridge (The .380 ACP). This is where the longer barrels and slower burning propellants factor into the equation. Since the American ammunition manufacturers (Winchester's 95 grain hollow point, from a Ruger LCP pistol 2.75" barrel) runs 862 fps. I doubt this load could expand at those velocites.

When it comes to the .380, penetration is your greatest ally! I wouldn't depend on a .380 for expansion and penetration. such logic is contrary to the laws of physics.

By the way, my entire family is no longer among the living. It is hard being "the last of the Mohicans".
 
I have zero experience with the .32 NAA, but the German Army decided around 1906 that the 7.65 Parabellum (.30 Luger) did not have enough killing power, and it was a lot more powerful than the .32 NAA. Maybe they knew something about light bullets that .32 NAA fans don't.

Jim
 
The German Army decided around 1906 that the 7.65 Parabellum (.30 Luger) did not have enough killing power, and it was a lot more powerful than the .32 NAA. Maybe they knew something about light bullets that .32 NAA fans don't.
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Kinda sorta... but kinda not. The .30 Luger, Mauser, and Tokarev rounds are pretty fast! I would think that a properly constructed 85-90gr HP at 13-1600 fps would really show some teeth! The Germans and Russians didn't have that option, just FMJs. I'm pretty sure a round nose .30 FMJ would be better on Cottontails that bad guys.

All of this is somewhat moot, as Limnophile has pointed out a better .380 load than those I had seen before, causing me lose interest in the .32NAA. There is none on the shelf right now, so the same old 115gr LRN bullets will remain in the gun for now.
 
I have been intrigued with the .32NAA cartridge for the past few months. I had recently decided to put a project gun together with this cartridge as described by Gyvel in this thread. The goal is to end up with a FN Browning 1910 having a 3 barrel set (.32ACP, .32NAA, and .380ACP).
I have purchased a used .32acp barrel that I plan to either get rechambered or buy a chamber reamer for that caliber. I would prefer to have the barrel rechambered by a competent gunsmith, but I'm not opposed to challenges and will tackle it myself if need be. If anyone has info pertaining to a source to contact for having the barrel work done, I would appreciate it.
 
I have a 7.62 x 25 Russian (Tokarev) and it's 86 grain FMJ screaming from a 4.6" barreled M57 (Crvena Zastava) comes steaming out at well over 1500 fps and zips through bone, muscle and anything that gets in it's way. i'll be buying some 100 grain JHP loaded ammunition later in the season.

The .32 NAA works on the same principle. At about 1510 fps 303.8 foot-pounds of energy from a 4.375" barrel Browning M1922, you can almost guarantee expansion. If it doesn't expand, It should perforate lungs, a liver, and other "indoor plumbing". It may not run as hot as the 7.62 x 25 Russian, but it should do a lot more damage than any .380. Why? Velocity turning into expnded energy, along with both temporary and permanent "crush cavities". All this with 15% less recoil than the .380.

It may not be a tiny "pocket pistol" but it should tear up a good deal of tissue along the way.
 
samsmix: I don't know if you served, but even in the early 70's, our men with "boots on the ground" were scared $*itless of the 7.52 x 25 in the PPSh submachinegun, (and the TT-33 was pretty darned frightening too)! I'm certain you'll remember that the Soviets routinely used "metal piercing" ammunition. (Read: armor piercing).

During the Cold War people climbing over the Berlin Wall were routinely butchered with the PPSh submachinegun employed by East German border guards. People that were struck with barrage of PPSh subgun fire (and survived to tell the story) described it as "being ripped apart". That pretty much sums up the efficacity/efficiency of the 7.62 x 25 round!

It zips through just about everything!

I'll be buying some 100 grain JHP ammunition for PD purposes.
 
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I almost served. There was this little matter of an oath that was 50% U.S., and 50% U.N. I wouldn't swear to the U.N.

I have heard the stories of the PPSh from a Korean war vet who had to face it with M1s and such. They were pretty scared of it all right. He said best thing we had to counter it was Thompsons, M3s, and M2s (Mostly M2s is what he said), but that we were still at a disadvantage due to the PPSh's and 71rnd drum, and high cyclic rate. He said if two patrols met up in thick cover, the Americans were apt to take a mauling because of it.
 
I always figured the .30 Tok with a good Hollowpoint would have been an FN Five-seveN, before there was an FN Five-seveN. Better really. I also think an 86gr HP at 1550 might be good SD medicine in an apartment setting.

I carried a 9mm Chicom Tok as an EDC for about 6 months. It's slender likes carried like a dream, but it is a slow gun to bring into action.

Your Gas Station story made me laugh because...well...me too! LOL! That is what I bought my P3AT for originally!
 
samsmix: I'll never forget watching a bunch of local boys in the 'hood (right across the street from the gas/convenience station I was patrolling) secreting themselves behind one of the neighborhood businesses. I wasn't going to tolerate any of that crap! I got right on the horn and called 911, telling them I was the Security Officer across the street and informing the operator of the suspiscious activity. Within 5 minutes, A Portland Police Bureau cruiser pulled up, shone a spotlight on the intruders and broke up a dope deal. (Some disappointed 'hood citizens spent the night in jail)! :p

If you don't report it, the bad guys get by with it!
 
Well done CapO.

I was just a cashier at the time, but we didn't have any security other than cameras, but it was a kinda crack-head neighborhood...well for Montana at least. I've been on Armored Cars since about '02 though, and you see a lot of stupid stuff being out and about every day.

Doing a federal contract security job now. Probably won't be very exciting, but the pay is a lot better, and so are the benefits.:)
 
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