.327 LCR vs .380: 2018 Edition

I carry a lot of stuff with me and carrying a gun takes up enough space on its own. In any case where wardrobe has me carrying anything in this size class, spare magazines or speed loaders just don't make the cut. It makes that sixth round in .327 Federal even more attractive.
 
In case anyone really cares...

The HKS speed loaders hang up on the LCR's factory grips. And I've heard the same about the other brand of plastic speed loader. (I can't remember what brand that is... :rolleyes:)
The 5-Star aluminum speed loader, with notches between the cartridges, works much better with the LCR.

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Cosmodragoon said:
I carry a lot of stuff with me and carrying a gun takes up enough space on its own. In any case where wardrobe has me carrying anything in this size class, spare magazines or speed loaders just don't make the cut. It makes that sixth round in .327 Federal even more attractive.
Click to expand...
Right on. For me having that 6th round means a lot compared to the LCP as even with the LCP, reloading is not simple or easy. Every time I put a new mag in, I have to smack the bottom of it, with authority, into the mag well to get it to lock in place. If I don't, it doesn't work, the mag falls out.

That's extra time in reloading that could easily have been done using a speed loader or a speed strip with the LCR. 6 rounds of .327 vs 7 rds of .380 ACP, more importantly being able to shoot it more accurately... I am starting to see a big difference between the .327 LCR and LCP.
 
Yes, thank you FrankenMauser. The HKS speed loaders hang up the way you described on my 642, I will give the 5-stars a go.
 
Without question the 327 is a more effective round. This is proven by gel tests. It's virtually impossible to find a 380 round that consistently BOTH penetrate 12" AND expand. I have a little Beretta Pico that I use for quick errands when I need something I can just toss in a pocket without much thought. I load it with Winchester 95 gr FMJ FN. I just don't really trust any JHP to get the job done in a 380.

At the same time, the 327 Federal Gold Dot loadings even out of 2-3" barrels rival the performance from modern 9mm loadings out of service length barrels.

The problem with 327 Federal is that ammo just isn't available for it and expensive. Other than that there is no question the 327 Federal LCR is a better option than a pocket 380 in terms of effectiveness. The 327 Federal barks quite a bit though so not everybody can handle it very easily.
 
At the same time, the 327 Federal Gold Dot loadings even out of 2-3" barrels rival the performance from modern 9mm loadings out of service length barrels.
Click to expand...

It does better than that. Out of the LCR, the 115-grain gold dots have been chronographed at around 1250 fps. There is a lot of 9mm +p loaded with the same bullet weight that won't match that velocity from a full-sized gun.

Of course, price and availability are a real consideration for people looking to get into this fine caliber. We've seen similar problems with .41 magnum or even .357 Sig. The difference is that .327 Fed Mag offers great performance and increased capacity on small and easy to carry platforms like the LCR and SP101. The cutting edge of revolver technology might not be an exciting place for everyone but it is for me, so I pay my premium and try to keep several boxes ahead. :)
 
"It does better than that. Out of the LCR, the 115-grain gold dots have been chronographed at around 1250 fps. There is a lot of 9mm +p loaded with the same bullet weight that won't match that velocity from a full-sized gun."

Speed's one thing, but it's not even remotely everything.

It's nothing if it doesn't have the required penetration to consistently reach vital structures in the body under even adverse conditions.

Any jello shots information on the round?
 
Indeed.
Average penetration is 13-15" with the factory SD loads and AE 100 gr SP, from the 3" SP101.

Due to the disorganized nature of the sources that have done the testing, and Lucky Gunner's recent, inexplicable choice to remove all of their .327 Federal data from their site, it's far easier to let you do the search for yourself.
"327 Federal ballistic gel" works well. To sort a little more chaff from the wheat, adding "FBI" helps.
 
A while back I shot my Glock 42 and my Ruger Single Seven side by side. It seemed to me then that the .380 and .32 H&R were very similar in hand. The .327 Mag was clearly a more powerful round in that very UNscientific comparison. So I'm reading this thread with some interest. I'm having trouble finding gel tests for .32 H&R to compare to .380 and .327. I lifted some information from Brass Fetcher's 10 percent gel tests. http://www.brassfetcher.com/

I chose to copy only the Hydra-Shok test in .380 to compare it to the similar .327 bullet.

.327 Mag
Speer Gold Dot 115 gr bullet impact velocity 1326 fps penetration 14.9 inches
Federal Hydra-Shok 85 gr bullet impact velocity 1304 fps penetration 12.3 inches

.380
Federal Hydra-Shok 90 gr bullet impact velocity 842 fps penetration 12.2 inches

So from those tests it looks like .327 with the heavier Speer round is the best performer. The two Hydra-Shoks are surprisingly close in penetration depths.

I also found this site http://gundata.org/bullet-database/
which apparently just uses math to compare various calibers and loads. If I understand them correctly, these averages are across all the known loads for a particular caliber.
They publish this:

.32 H&R Average FPS: 998
Average Energy: 197
Average Gr: 89
Recoil: 0.42
Power Rank: 1.78 of 7

.380 Average FPS: 980
Average Energy: 194
Average Gr: 91
Recoil: 0.41
Power Rank: 1.78 of 7

.327 Average FPS: 1427
Average Energy: 452
Average Gr: 100
Recoil: 0.67
Power Rank: 2.86 of 7

While those results are averages of averages, it does look like .32 H&R and .380 perform closely, while .327 is faster and more energetic. Too bad Gun Data didn't include penetration averages.

I'm not sure what it all means. Just adding some grist.
 
I'd go with the .380 if I still carried one. But with 9mm coming practically in the same size/ weight package I did not see the point. The wife likes the micro .380 though. I prefer that she prefer the 380 as well. Ammo is roughly average 1/5 the price and easy to find everywhere.

$1 rd avg vs $.17 = much cheaper practice time.
 
Cosmodragoon. I was referring to actual expansion and penetration numbers. Not just energy levels. You see, the 327 federal is starting at .312" diameter so it takes a little more effort to get it to expand like a 9mm loading. That is what I meant. You can carry a 327 snubby and get the same performance of a 9mm out of a service size pistol. That is what I meant. While as you are not getting that level of performance from a little Micro 9. Ammoquest tested a whole bunch of 9mm loadings out of a 3" barrel and most loadings were either failing to expand consistently or staying below .500" expansion through denim. Not really all that much better than a 380 frankly. I don't really view the micro 9s as pocket pistols. I prefer a 380 or a hammerless snub revolver. While the micro 9s and snub revolvers are roughly the same size, I've generally found hammerless snub revolvers much easier to draw since they have a smooth tapered transition from the grip to the rear sight while sem-auto pistols have the rear part of the slide that serves as a hook that tends to catch on your pocket when drawing. The pocket 380s are small enough to overcome that. I find the micro 9s to be more of an IWB belt pistol and not really all that practical for pocket carry.

I agree. The 327 is a fantastic round and I would own one of there was better ammo availability. People are just too reluctant to switch to other chamberings. The 327 absolutely smokes the 38 in performance and you get an extra round. It's so practical yet the market has been very lukewarm to respond to it.
 
I actually haven't seen much in the way of gel tests for various rounds in .327 Federal. I know they consistently produce more dramatic results on water jugs than 9mm but I usually shoot single containers and I've never recovered one.

In comparing 115-grain loads in .327 and standard-pressure 9mm, even allowing the little LCR to face off against a service-sized nine, it is faster and skinnier. Yes, it will be starting out smaller but similar bullet constructions may expand more reliably with that speed difference. I'm not sure that adequate penetration would be a concern at those weights and speeds but the .327 Federal does have greater sectional density than the 9mm.

If you want to see a really good comparison of "mainstream" defensive ammo including .380, check out these charts (with pictures and linked videos) from Lucky Gunner:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

It looks like there is a new series on .327 on YouTube. It is far from perfect but was certainly interesting to watch. His 3" SP101 was getting lower chronograph values for the 85-grain Hydra-Shok than some LCR tests I saw posted elsewhere. Even so, it opened up to just over half an inch at 1200 fps. I know water jugs aren't gel but they looked pretty good in the "meat target" too. :)

In the first video, testing starts around four minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYz2lVukLLQ

Here is the discount meat target. I'd love to see Paul Harrell do some .327 testing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc1Fvii_6So
 
Paul's never going to get the money to buy a $500 Ruger .327 to test it a few times, then say the same stuff everyone else says about how there's not enough ammo variety out there and the price is too high.

I expect he would say something to the effect that ".327 does give you an extra round over .38/.357 and can shoot weaker ammo with felt recoil the same as a .22. Whether or not you believe that's worth the increased cost of ammo, difficulty of finding said ammo, and a smaller projectile... you be the judge."

I think .327 or really the .32 caliber in general is capable of getting the job done. .380 is very difficult for me to shoot well, .327 or .32 H&R in a 6 shot revolver will probably make hits at 25 yards boringly repeatable and I'd rather carry a boringly accurate snub revolver than an impossibly difficult to shoot well .380.
 
Cosmo, believe me, my comment was not a knock on the 327. It was actually a compliment that the 327 out of a snub performs as good as a 9mm from a service sized gun. That's pretty remarkable. All that while getting one more round over 38 Spl.

I'm very familiar with Paul Harrell and love his videos.
 
I've not concealed carried a revolver before, but I'm wondering between the 2 inch LCRx and a 3 inch LCRx, in regards to IWB/OWB, shoulder, etc. is there a difference between a 2 inch barrel or 3 inch barrel revolver when it comes to effectively drawing it or carrying it?

I focused a lot on the snub LCR because it's small enough it could be carried in the pocket, but my preference is a 3 inch because of better velocity and sight radius. Pachmyer makes grips for the LCR/LCRx that carry like a 2 finger grip, but when gripped, a tab pops out the bottom of the grip for the pinky. I was thinking of getting the 3 inch LCRx .327 when (more like if :( ) it comes out and putting those grips on it for better concealment.

So that's my drivling thought for this thread.
 
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