.32 or .22 for carry
- Thread starter ddt4free
- Start date
ChuteTheMall
New member
For most of the 20th century, the .32 was the caliber of choice for european police.
The Walther PP and PPK were more common in .32 than .380 for many years. The reason the .32 was chosen over the .380? One more round in the magazine.
Today we have advances in cartridge design, so the best .380 is far better than the best.32.
But the .32 has far more stopping power than the .22 from a pocket pistol. Buy a pocket .22 for plinking fun, but practice with a pocket.32 for a real back-up gun.
And the Keltec P-32 weighs only 6.6 oz empty.
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Some people have a way with words. Others not have way.
The Walther PP and PPK were more common in .32 than .380 for many years. The reason the .32 was chosen over the .380? One more round in the magazine.
Today we have advances in cartridge design, so the best .380 is far better than the best.32.
But the .32 has far more stopping power than the .22 from a pocket pistol. Buy a pocket .22 for plinking fun, but practice with a pocket.32 for a real back-up gun.
And the Keltec P-32 weighs only 6.6 oz empty.
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Some people have a way with words. Others not have way.
I prefer .32 because of
-reliability of ammo
-cleanliness of ammo which improves functioning of the gun
-power of the ammo: I did field tests and .22 came up lacking
-particular design (p32) was the best of any small gun in my opinion
http://dd-b.net/RKBA/p32/mousegun.html
.25 and .22 are a toss-up: 60gr .22 might be much better (though jacketed .25 slugs usually stay together better) and the price difference allows for more practice. In an alloy revolver .22 is a clear winner over .25 -- but .32 wins in penetration AND wound channel size.
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
-reliability of ammo
-cleanliness of ammo which improves functioning of the gun
-power of the ammo: I did field tests and .22 came up lacking
-particular design (p32) was the best of any small gun in my opinion
http://dd-b.net/RKBA/p32/mousegun.html
.25 and .22 are a toss-up: 60gr .22 might be much better (though jacketed .25 slugs usually stay together better) and the price difference allows for more practice. In an alloy revolver .22 is a clear winner over .25 -- but .32 wins in penetration AND wound channel size.
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
I used to carry a NAA Minirevolver in 22mag when in shorts - a lot down here in Florida. I looked at a NAA Guardian in 32acp and was sold instantly. More rounds in the gun, true self defense rounds, and marginally better ballistics. And the DAO 32acp guns are faster to shoot. All around better gun for self defense IMHO...
Personally, there is no real reason to carry for defensive purposes anything less than a pistol chambered in 9mm, what with the proliferation of sub-compact designs. This is a weapon to be used in the last resort, after all. Bigger IS better. You are betting your life on the results.
That being said- The .32, while horribly inadequate, is bigger and therefor better than the .22.
Erik
That being said- The .32, while horribly inadequate, is bigger and therefor better than the .22.
Erik
If any of you want to see .32 chrono data out of a Kel-Tec P-32, see: http://www.geocities.com/goldenloki/ammo.html
--Dean
--Dean
From a reliability standpoint the 32 acp is the clear winner when being fired from a auto pistol. If I were looking for a small caliber carry pistol I would chose the 32 over the 22 any day. 22 auto pocket pistols are prone to jams and other failures. Also the 32 has better ballistics. If I were going to carry a small caliber revolver then I would consider the 22 over the 32. Cheap ammo, little recoil, ease of practice, no worry of malfunctions.
I, my self, wouldn't be caught carrying any thing smaller than a 9mm.Preferably a kel-tec p11 or even their 40.Or even one of the Khar pistol,my pick, the 40 covert. But if I had to choose between the 22 or the 32 I would take the 32. There are better choices of defensive amo. And they are way more reliable than any 22,so long as you buy a quality gun.
Thanks, for all of your replies. I did a little research since I posted this and found that hyper velocity .22's like stingers and yellow jackets have the same velocities as the .32 and there was only a 35lb. max. increase in foot pounds difference in favor of of the .32.If somebody knows about wounds, is 35lbs a big deal?
35ftlbs. is, I think, substantial when looking at small bullets from small guns. But, would this really cause that much more of a disabling wound? I mean I just know that the .22 is a proven deadly round.
I guess you could just add up the extra foot pounds with every shot to measure a more subtantial cummulative effect. 2 shots of .32 = 75lbs. more force than 2 shots of .22.
Now I have seen several .22 autoloaders that where far more reliable that many smaller centerfire pistols. Especially, IMHO, better than the .25.
Now the arguement that the Europeans carried anything means nothing to me. Nothing against Europeans, but they are all sissies except for the Germans. There are only two pistol rounds to come out of Europe that I am fond of and they are the 9mm and the 7.62x25mm.
Now, I also have had more bad primers in centerfire rounds than I have ever had in non Federal rimfires.
I know that most of this is anecdotal and hardly scientific. I really have to respect Oleg's comments even though I'm not really sure that I'm on his bandwagon.Thanks Again to all. ddt
35ftlbs. is, I think, substantial when looking at small bullets from small guns. But, would this really cause that much more of a disabling wound? I mean I just know that the .22 is a proven deadly round.
I guess you could just add up the extra foot pounds with every shot to measure a more subtantial cummulative effect. 2 shots of .32 = 75lbs. more force than 2 shots of .22.
Now I have seen several .22 autoloaders that where far more reliable that many smaller centerfire pistols. Especially, IMHO, better than the .25.
Now the arguement that the Europeans carried anything means nothing to me. Nothing against Europeans, but they are all sissies except for the Germans. There are only two pistol rounds to come out of Europe that I am fond of and they are the 9mm and the 7.62x25mm.
Now, I also have had more bad primers in centerfire rounds than I have ever had in non Federal rimfires.
I know that most of this is anecdotal and hardly scientific. I really have to respect Oleg's comments even though I'm not really sure that I'm on his bandwagon.Thanks Again to all. ddt
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Probably the best thing to look at for .22 v .32 is penetration. I have not tested either one. I do beleive that a FMJ in either .25 or .32 will out penetrate a .22 with an equivelent barrel.
My experiance with pocket guns in .22 is the direct opposite of ddt4free's experiance. My Beretta .25 is stone cold reliable.
Giz
My experiance with pocket guns in .22 is the direct opposite of ddt4free's experiance. My Beretta .25 is stone cold reliable.
Giz
My first "fighting" gun was a Colt .22 which I borrowed and later bought. I made an assumption that unloading a whole magazine rapidly was similar to a 12ga #2 buck load and thus effective enough. High velocity coated .22 fed reliably for about 200 rounds at a time, then the residue would cause problems. Velocities out of a 4" barrel were not as high as nominal but close enough.
About two years later, I took a .22 Ruger Mk1 to gift to a friend's kid. That gun also had a 4" barrel. I brought several bricks of SuperX and we test-fired the gun. Because of rain, we only had ten minutes of firing time but that was enough.
Our target were metal details on a 1960s fridge that we found at a dump. I found that the .22 slugs would only penetrate 1/2" into the vinyl of the fridge door and stop. Those that hit the metal would not even go that far although the tin was very thin.
Then Michelle fired her Walther PPK/s .32 at the same target. Of her eight rounds five went all the way through the front AND back of the fridge and the other three made bulges on the back! Ammo was Fiocchi 73gr ball. That convinced me.
.32 is not a great round, esp. with short barrels. However, it is at least marginally adequate whereas .22 from a handgun is not, IMO. Incidentally, if given a choice of .32 pistols, I'd pick a 1908 Colt Pocket Hammerless: accuracy, lack of kick are remarkable. Pity it isn't drop-safe. P32, by contrast, is not easy to fire accurately or fast but it is lighter than even most .22 pistols (1/2 the weight of Walther TPH) and packs a bigger punch. In larger guns (like Tomcat) .32 seems like a waste as similarly sized .380s are available.
About two years later, I took a .22 Ruger Mk1 to gift to a friend's kid. That gun also had a 4" barrel. I brought several bricks of SuperX and we test-fired the gun. Because of rain, we only had ten minutes of firing time but that was enough.
Our target were metal details on a 1960s fridge that we found at a dump. I found that the .22 slugs would only penetrate 1/2" into the vinyl of the fridge door and stop. Those that hit the metal would not even go that far although the tin was very thin.
Then Michelle fired her Walther PPK/s .32 at the same target. Of her eight rounds five went all the way through the front AND back of the fridge and the other three made bulges on the back! Ammo was Fiocchi 73gr ball. That convinced me.
.32 is not a great round, esp. with short barrels. However, it is at least marginally adequate whereas .22 from a handgun is not, IMO. Incidentally, if given a choice of .32 pistols, I'd pick a 1908 Colt Pocket Hammerless: accuracy, lack of kick are remarkable. Pity it isn't drop-safe. P32, by contrast, is not easy to fire accurately or fast but it is lighter than even most .22 pistols (1/2 the weight of Walther TPH) and packs a bigger punch. In larger guns (like Tomcat) .32 seems like a waste as similarly sized .380s are available.
Oleg, you the man! You make some very convincing arguements. The graphics you provide are great. I don't carry but was curious as I am a fan of pocket pistols. I will definitely give the .32 more consideration.
Something makes me wonder though. I'm sure refridgerators everywhere cower at the sight of a .32 pistol but is it really more effective in self defense?
I used to shoot a .22 pistol in my bedroom(don't try this at home). I used to shoot old ammo cans with wood or catalogs shoved in them. And as far as penetration is concerned the .22 at close range is no slouch. Do we focus on penetration in small caliber wounds or on expansion? Thanks -ddt
Something makes me wonder though. I'm sure refridgerators everywhere cower at the sight of a .32 pistol but is it really more effective in self defense?
I used to shoot a .22 pistol in my bedroom(don't try this at home). I used to shoot old ammo cans with wood or catalogs shoved in them. And as far as penetration is concerned the .22 at close range is no slouch. Do we focus on penetration in small caliber wounds or on expansion? Thanks -ddt
We focus on penetration.
.32 more reliable, and at the level we're talking about, the small (but definite) power increase over .22 LR is important.
Erik, I'm feeling a little chubby, as I'm up to 150 lbs. Even my P-11 is too hard to conceal under indoor clothes in GA. Would I prefer more? Oh, yes. If I could, I'd go everywhere with a Taurus Titanium .41 Mag, or a Ruger 4 5/8" bl .45 Colt, or my Glock 24 on my hip. Unfortunately, that would mean losing my job, and facing harrassment, arrest, and potentially death. My P-32 fits into my pocket fairly nicely, OTOH.
Oleg, your pics are beautiful. Thanks again. I'm sure when you say shooting easily and fast, you mean at distance? I only practice rapid-fire at close range with my P-32, and I can fire each round faster than through all but one or two other platforms I own...
.32 more reliable, and at the level we're talking about, the small (but definite) power increase over .22 LR is important.
Erik, I'm feeling a little chubby, as I'm up to 150 lbs. Even my P-11 is too hard to conceal under indoor clothes in GA. Would I prefer more? Oh, yes. If I could, I'd go everywhere with a Taurus Titanium .41 Mag, or a Ruger 4 5/8" bl .45 Colt, or my Glock 24 on my hip. Unfortunately, that would mean losing my job, and facing harrassment, arrest, and potentially death. My P-32 fits into my pocket fairly nicely, OTOH.
Oleg, your pics are beautiful. Thanks again. I'm sure when you say shooting easily and fast, you mean at distance? I only practice rapid-fire at close range with my P-32, and I can fire each round faster than through all but one or two other platforms I own...
The P-32 is small enough to fit into a shirt pocket and be concealed and can be carried that way all day unnoticed. the down side of the .22 LR is that the priming compound is put into the case wet. the case is then spun and the mixture is distributed around the periminter of the case. Sometimes the compound doesn;t get distributed properly and voids occure. if the firing pin stirkes a void, you have a misfire. Plus the centerfire rounds are easier to chamber than the lead .22 bullets, thus better feed reliability with the centerfire round vs the .22LR. Not to mention more powerful and better designed expanding bullets in the centerfire...7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
Check the archives library here for ballistics information. Consider a small .380 ACP. There are some very effective cartridges available in that caliber in terms of "permanent and temporary wound canel," also known as "hole depth and diameter."
[This message has been edited by Ledbetter (edited March 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Ledbetter (edited March 19, 2000).]
Thanks folks, Interesting info on rimfire primer manufacture. I understand that feeding of rimfires can be more troublesome in some poorly designed semi autos but the the same is true of poorly designed centerfires. Many centerfire automatics are "jam-o-matics".
I will try to shoot a .32 and see if I like one over a .22. A .32 just seems like to much money to still end up with a cap gun. thanks ddt
I will try to shoot a .32 and see if I like one over a .22. A .32 just seems like to much money to still end up with a cap gun. thanks ddt