.32 H&R Magnum Revolver Ammo Questions

Tyro: I can't answer your question about the relative felt recoil of a .32 Magnum vs a .38 special (non +P) in same weight revolvers. There is a formula to calulate free recoil, but I've forgotten it and anyway its not really the same as felt recoil.

Some intesting data is:
Bullet Wgt MV ME MVxWgt
.32 S&W Long 98 gr 705 115 66,090
.32 Magnum 85 gr 1100 230 93,500
.38 Special 110gr 945 220 103.950
.38 Special 130gr 775 175 100,750
.38 Special 158gr 755 200 151,000

Dennis
 
On Magsafes in THIS caliber:

A 50grain load going as fast as Magsafe loads it in the .32Mag (which is very hot) has enough energy to blow through the skullbone.

That in turn means it meets my personal "minimal defense effectiveness" criteria: a headshot is probably going to do enough damage.

Soft tissue damage is a crapshoot with all marginal calibers. In the case of this Magsafe load, the primary variable will be how fat your assailant is :).

If I recall correctly, this magsafe load is rated at 1,600fps from a 4" tube. If so, it should pull around 1,400 from a 2". Frangible effectiveness increases radically with velocity; this same projectile at 2,000fps or more in something like a .30Carbine would be hell on wheels :).

The other option, the Federal JHP, is loaded so pathetically light in the Federal tradition :barf: that I wouldn't expect it to open. So on the average torso shot, I'd rather have the Magsafe, and both should be effective on a headshot.

Hence my reasoning.
 
Jim: Your reasoning is great! Only problem is that I've never been comfortable carrying ammo I haven't shot a whole bunch to see how it behaves for me in my gun under various conditions. I simply can't afford to do this with MagSafe. :) Dennis
 
Jim,

Good theory, until push comes to shove and you can't land a head shot...

Don't aim for the small targets, aim for the larger targets, and pick your ammo accordingly.

Whatever works for you, but trying to make head shots during a shootout isn't something that I recommend for anyone to attempt, especially not a newbie such as Tyro.


Dennis,

The .32 Colt New Police is nothing more than the .32 S&W Long. Colt had to bow to popular demand (the .32 Long Colt was getting beaten badly in sales by the .32 S&W Long) and chamber the S&W round, but they just couldn't bring themselves to put their No. 1 competitor's name on the cartridge.

That was very common among a lot of companies in the late 1800s early 1900s.

In addition, Colt also loaded the .38 New Police and the .38 Super Police. The same case as the .38 S&W round, but with flat point bullets -- in the case of the .38 Super Police, a 200-gr. flat point.

That round had a very good reputation among plainclothes police for many many years. It was also the round that led the British to develop their .380/200 military round -- essentially the .38 S&W casing with Colt's 200-gr. lead bullet.

Later on that was changed to a FMJ bullet of about 150-gr., or right back around to S&W's ORIGINAL load for the .38 S&W.

What goes around comes around, I guess.
 
Editing note: The following was being written while Mike was posting his response.

Jim March:

Wow! This has risen to the definition of conundrum. I knew that when your answer came to be posted, it would be something rather well reasoned.

So, Jim, what do you think re the question of .38 special (non + P) versus .32 H&R Magnum in the same weight gun?

I suppose one would have the take into account exactly what ammo is loaded in each gun.

Say I loaded an 11.3 oz. .32 H&R Magnum with MagSafe:

Is there a .38 Special load, which, when fired by an 11.x oz. .38 revolver, would result in perceived recoil such that it would be approximately the same as the .32 loaded with MagSafe H&R Magnum?

Posted after reading Mike's response:

How about a comparison of a Federal .32 H&R load?
 
Not to belabor things too much but I've shot 1000's of rounds of Georgia Arms ammo in .45 ACP and .44 Magnum with utter reliability. Given that history I would be comfortable using their new 100 gr JHP .32 H&R Magnum for CCW - after shooting 400 to 500 rounds to check it out (and of course have some fun!). Their 100 grain bullet with a MV of 1100 ft/sec develops a ME = 269 ft lbs, which is better than any .380 ACP, and as high as any +P 38 Special short of one with a 158 gr bullet. At least the potential to shoot this round adds a lot more versitility to the .32 (sorry I don't know what its recoil feels like). :) Dennis
 
Thanks, Dennis.

Given the cost of MagSafe, and the high level of controversy regarding its nature, I'm leaning toward getting the .32 revolver and stoking it with Georgia Arms ammo.

That is, if no one provides a convincing reason to opt for a .38 instead :).
 
Tyro: The problem is that the 38 Special is probably a "better" all around round but with your special problem I'd want to hear a comparision of recoil in same weight guns before I opted for it. I don't know how recoil adverse you are, perhaps even the Georgia Arms round is too much in a light gun. Good luck! Dennis
 
Tyro,

Quite frankly, I've not seen any data on how the lighter .38 Spl. non +Ps fare in gelatin testing, and precious little on .32 H&R Mag.

I forget, again. Why are you going with the lighter caliber? Recoil, right?

Is there any chance of you getting a .38 Spl. and "training your way up" so that you get used to heavier recoil?

I don't often say this, but if recoil is truly the problem here, you may be better off with a 9mm semi-auto, something like a Kahr or a used S&W Model 3913.

You get more power, softer recoil, and a round that is going to offer a lot more performance than the light-weight loads that you're talking about.
 
Several points:

Because we're talking about revolvers versus slideguns, there's no need to run hundreds of whatever ammo type through a particular gun for "reliability testing". That's a semi-auto thing. Hence revolver people can at least contemplate expensive $3-per-round ammo - you only need to shoot enough so you know where they go, how accurate they are. As few as 12 will do that.

The reason .38Spl will work better has a lot to do with how popular they are, therefore the ammo makers were motivated to do more development and offer a broader range.

Tyro, if you CAN handle a .38, even at standard pressure, five of those will be worth a lot more than six .32Mags.

I must strongly recommend that you try a steel-frame S&W or Taurus snubbie revolver loaded with target wadcutters. If you can handle that recoil, then you can handle .38 standard-pressure combat loads in the slightly heavier Ruger SP101 .357, which is another gun you should check out. It's a bit heavier, and hence recoil is slightly less.

If you can take standard-pressure .38, then the Federal 125 Nyclad is a far more trustworthy round than any .32Mag other than that now-defunct Cor-Bon load, which really had some promise.

If you CANNOT shoot .38spl from even a heavy snub like the SP101, then if I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider the Taurus 8-shot .22Mag on a frame similar to the S&W J-frame, in a 4" barrel. Concealment would still be OK, and a good 30grain JHP doing 1,400fps WILL get some fool's attention, recoil will be minimal and hey, you got EIGHT of 'em :D. With very little recoil, you can practice the "quad tap" - dump four into your first target, and if something else pops up or the Goblin isn't down, repeat :).

Carry just one load: the CCI MaxiMag +V TNT .22Magnum. Fortunately it's pretty easy to get. Runs about $7 for 50. Other .22Mags are widely available, some with less recoil, fine for practice but carry +V TNTs.

Give it a trigger job and some good wooden boot grips, and you're a far cry from "unarmed".

http://www.taurususa.com/m941.html - I'd do the 4" tube, myself.

What else...Tyro, one thing I'm not clear on, I know you have a hard time with recoil but...can you hold a bigger gun? If so, one way to eliminate recoil is to shoot a modest round out of a BIG gun. Fr'instance, the Taurus 608 :). It's a big ol' 8-shot .357...shortest barrel length listed is 4". There are speedloaders available for it, and with .38Spls at standard pressure, recoil will be close to undetectable. Dunno how big your hands are, or if you can hold up the weight at all.

http://www.taurususa.com/m608.html
 
Dennis:

Thanks for a very helpful series of responses.

Mike:
if recoil is truly the problem here
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Recoil is the lesser of two problems. The worse problem is a combination of spinal arthritis + a rather unique intestinal problem which has gotten me into a condition which precludes wearing a belt - a combination which limits my ability to handle the weight of a carry gun heavier than about .12 oz.

Jim:

I have a Jack Weigand ported SP101, which I can handle and shoot quite comfortably as long as I carry it in my hand. I just can't carry the weight of it in a holster or pocket without agravating my physical problems. I doubt I could handle the recoil of a .38 that is not ported and that weighs less than the Weigand SP101. (I found the recoil of my KGP141 to be too much for my arthritis before having it ported by Jack Weigand).

I am very grateful for all the responses to this thread, which has just about convinced me to keep my NAA Mini Master Magnum (thanks again, Jim March, for that one!) as my primary carry gun, and to buy a .22LR revolver as a New York reload.

I live the life of a hermit most of the time, in about as secure a place as there is in the USA - with Remingtons and Rugers in my gun safe. I really have no anxiety about carrying no more than .22s. on my body.

Many thanks again for all the helpful information and advice.
 
tyro,

Given comparable gun weights, the .38 non +P ammo is going to be much stiffer than the .32 Mag. The comparison I made eariler is between the .32 Mag ammo from Gearigia Arms (100 gr.) in my S&W 331 (11.2 ozs) and .38 Sp. (158 gr.) out of my S&W 638. The latter is an alloy shrouded hammer snubbie weighing in at 15.0 ozs. The recoil from these are similar. I would describe it as snappy, but very manageable. If you are suffering from arthritis, you could practice with .32 Longs (yes, it does dirty up your cylinder, but such is life, and the fouling does come out). The .32 Longs are very pleasant to shoot in the 331 (duplicate all comments for the 332). You could always shoot an occasional .32 Mag just to get used to the recoil.

BTW, the Federal load I shoot is 85 gr., not 95. gr. as I previously stated.

Ideally, you can ask around and find soeone who owns one of these to test fire first.

Lastly, in terms of aqequate defense, I have three carry guns - 331, 638, and a Glock 23. I feel well prepared with any of them. I think if you were to search the records, you will find the majority of CCW defensive uses of a firearm where shots were actually fired involve a goodly number of small caliber weapons. In most cases, one or two well-placed shots are all it takes to send the would-be attackers on their way.
 
DennisE: somehow I missed that description of the Georgia 100grainer doing 1,100fps. Sounds interesting, especially if that's from a 2"? At that point, a six-shot J-frame-size package starts to really make sense.

But Tyro, sad to say, that won't help you all that much. Recoil is recoil; that load in an alloy snubbie is gonna hurt.

Hmmm. Didn't understand about that carry weight issue. Possible suggestion? Think about retaining the NAA in it's current "first at bat, first strike" carry mode, and put something beefier on the ankle?

What I'm thinking is, you keep the NAA as the "quick response" answer, but think about a "fight your way to cover" gameplan, at which point you go low, grab for the ankle setup (such as the SP101 with .38s) and if necessary, continue the fight from cover.

Ankle carry is a poor first-strike choice, but works well as a backup because you can get to it while low and/or behind a barrier.

Does this make sense?

What I'd really like to see is Taurus release that 8-shot .22magnum in titanium, with a 3" tube. That would be a perfect "recoil sensitive daily carry gun" and as CCW spreads, there's a REAL market for such a thing. You might be able to carry such a critter as your "upper body first strike" weapon but until then, the NAA MiniMaster isn't at all terrible in that role.
 
Thanks for the additional info, rock_jock.

Jim:
put something beefier on the ankle?
Click to expand...
Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
Sure does, and I tried it with the SP101 and an Alessi ankle holster. My ankle is so skinny that I could not secure the holster tight enough to keep it from being loose and floppy around the ankle, and the gun weight had me having to exert effort and attention to keep the gun leg from dragging. I sent the holster back to Lou and gave up on that as a good idea that just didn't work for me.
What I'd really like to see is Taurus release that 8-shot .22magnum in titanium, with a 3" tube. That would be a perfect "recoil sensitive daily carry gun" and as CCW spreads, there's a REAL market for such a thing.
Click to expand...
Amen to that!
 
Tyro: It looks like this thread is winding down. I'm very interested to hear about whichever gun you decide to get and about how it shoots for you. Please post your further adventures. Thanks, Dennis
 
Tyro, I hear you on the ankle thing.

Hmmmmm.

How often are you near your car? Perhaps all that's left is to leave the SP101 in the car, hidden somewhere, and use the NAA to fight your way to it if possible.

(scratches head)

Let's see if I understand something: shoulder carry on an SP101 is out, because it'll leave you off-balance. I'm sort of visualizing a rig whereby the gun is behind you, suspended from both shoulders, offset just a little from the vertabrae and hanging at about the level of your lowest rib, under a jacket. Maybe a bit lower, down around kidney level.

The weight would be distributed across both shoulders almost equally. No belt would be required. The draw would be from the strong side; the gun would be held in a kydex snap-in system suspended from custom straps.

Do you think it might work?
 
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You know, Tyro, the more I read, the more I think that you're a candidate for one of the "Carry Vests," that has the interior pocket set into the lining.

I can't fore the life of me think of who makes the things right now... Blocker?
 
Mike, that's a good idea, but I'd re-locate the hidden holster to a point about where I mentioned, because he must distribute the weight across both shoulders if this works at all.

Tyro?
 
Mike Irwin:
I think that you're a candidate for one of the "Carry Vests," that has the interior pocket set into the lining.
Click to expand...
Jim March:
Mike, that's a good idea, but I'd re-locate the hidden holster to a point about where I mentioned, because he must distribute the weight across both shoulders if this works at all.
Click to expand...
You fellows have zeroed in on my problem, and your latest suggestions are right on target with what I have been thinking since I turned my computer off last night. That is, a shift from thinking about the purchase of another gun to re-thinking ways to carry the SP101.

I have several vests, but so far the only way I have been able to carry the SP101 comfortably in one is by centering it in the middle of the back carry pouch of a hunting vest. But it's been too hot to wear that this summer.

Since I last logged on here at TFL, I have thought about ordering an Uncle Mike's inside-the-pants holster and positioning it on the hip between the straps of my Filson clip-on suspenders. My hope is that with the gun on the hip inside the elastic waist of the pants, the hip may bear just enough of the weight so there is not too much off-center pull on the spine. The Uncle Mike's holsters only cost $10, so its worth a try.

Dennis,

Thanks for the last note. There is a Permit to Purchase Handgun waiting for me at the Sheriff's office, and I will be getting another gun sooner or later regardless of whether or not I'm able to arrange to carry the SP101. I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
Jim,

I have been re-reading your suggestions re a custom holster rig. Sounds perfect to me. I'm going to be trying to figure out how to get something made to the specifications you have suggested. Do you know of anyone who might custom-make such a rig for me?

Your suggestion re the SP101 and the car is also on target re my circumstances. I'll be working that suggestion into the mix of strategies for having an adequate means of defense at all times.

I very much appreciate the wealth of creative ideas you have shared on a number of topics and threads.
 
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