.32 ACP Pistol Opinions

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dairycreek

New member
For a variety of reasons I am in the market for a .32 ACP. Again, for a variety of reasons, (cost being one of them)I've narrowed the choice to the Beretta Tomcat or the NAA Guardian. I've never been in the market for a so-called "mouse gun" before so any experiences, ideas, or suggestions would be welcome and appreciated.
 
I had a Tomcat for a whille, and really liked it. It was very accurate, and concealed well. I have never handled a Guardian, but from what I hear they are smaller than a Tomcat
 
You have my attention. How much do these pistols cost? and what is the size vs a palm glock (9mm) model 26.

Shane
 
Both guns are smaller than the Glocks.

The NAA is smaller, but it is a copy of the Seecamp, which is also very small.

I have heard there has been some problem with the Gaurdian, and they are about a hundred dollars more around here.

I like my Tomcat (run a search, they are being disucssed under "mouseguns" on the site).



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-Essayons
 
I have fired and practiced with my Seecamp .32 for more than five years. It is easy to shoot at short ranges and functions flawlessly. I paid a premium to get it; but I am very, very satisfied.

The Seecamp is a "little jewel" of a gun. It is exquisitely designed and beautifully manufactured. I consider the Seecamp an "heirloom gun". The NAA and the Berretta perform well enough; but they are clunky designs compared to the Seecamp. If you appreciate subtle quality differences and can afford the extra cost; the Seecamp is THE choice.

If price is a consideration the NAA will do a fine job. All of the modern .32's function well and are easy to carry. My Seecamp goes everywhere! Good Luck, Kurt
 
I agree that the Seacamp is a very well-built gun, but I don't understand what it has to offer, that justifies spending three or four-hundred dollars more than a Guardian. I have never seen a Seacamp disassembled, but externally it is pretty obvious that the Guardian is a vey close copy of the Seacamp. Actually I think that NAA has added a couple of real improvements to the Seacamp design. One is the addition of a 1911-style mag release. I've never been a fan of mag releases on the butts of pistols. The second improvement is the addition of a slide-release button. My Guardian cost me $350 in Phoenix, where Seacamps are selling for $775, and I am very happy with its performance. I agree that the finish work of the Seacamp is better, but for the extra money it would cost, I could have a bunch of custom work and polishing done somewhere like <a href="http://www.colt380.com/guardian.htm" target="new">Scott, McDougall & Associates</a>. They can also install Novak night sites or target sites on the Guardian, that will give you an honest-to-God site picture.
I really like Beretta's products. I have fired a Tomcat and loved the way it handled. If size is a consideration though, and if you are looking at this type of gun I'm guessing it is, the Seacamp/Guardian/Autuga pistol is really the way to go. Not only are these pistols quite a bit smaller than the Tomcat, they are smaller than the Beretta .25 autos. Good luck with whatever you choose.
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Eric@Glock Talk
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/

[This message has been edited by EricGT (edited 12-30-98).]
 
We also have a Beretta Tomcat. Originally, it was for my wife who wanted something smaller, lighter, and with less felt recoil.

On the plus side, the gun shot well, wasn't too terribly expensive, and had a tip-up barrel, which I thought was pretty neat at the time.

On the downside, we must've gotten a defective model. At one point, we had a malfunction. I wasn't exactly sure what it was because I wasn't shooting at the time. All I saw was my wife racking the slide trying to clear it. Well, it cleared it alright, but not what she had hoped for. Instead of the dud, the gun ejected the firing pin! I know, the proper procedure was to tip up the barrel, not rack the slide. But when we took it to a gunsmith to look at it, he said this is bizarre and is something that SHOULD NOT have happened to the gun in the first place.

Well, we contacted Beretta. To their credit, service was prompt and cordial. Rather than fixing the gun we had, they exchanged us for a new one free of charge.

Since then, my wife has gotten more skillful and confident with her gun-handling skills and have requested a Glock 26 instead. We got a really good deal with a Glock 27 during a gun show so we decided to get that instead. In the near future, we still plan to get a 26 for her as she is comfortable with that round and I'll take the 27 from her as my back-up gun. For now, the Tomcat serves back-up duty in my pants pocket. The sad irony is that because I am pocket carrying, I don't have a round chambered in that gun and the slide is hard to rack. Other reasons for not chambering the Tomcat includes a fickle external safety (in other words, I'm not using it) to fearing another "mishap" with this gun.

My $.02

[This message has been edited by SB (edited 12-30-98).]
 
In one of the responces there was mention of a slide release lever on the Guardian. Well, I just wanted to point out that this item does not exist. The Guardian only has two controls on it. One being the mag release (1911 style) and the other being a take down lever which is located under the right end of the slide, in the grip. This only alows for disassembly.
 
I have been to the NAA factory... I examined each part of the process in making the guns there.

I was very impressed in the quality and the workmanship there. They hand fit each part after carefull CNC machining. Each gun is hand finished as well. Almost to the point of each gun being "custom made" by folk who are all "gun nuts" which is a company phrase, and policy there.

My choice would be the Guardian - in a heart beat. No need for a second thought.
I would have to ask "Why NOT an NAA gun?" And to that I have no answer. The receptionist there is also Very Cute... and she knew guns better than most police officers I have ever known! *Sigh* If I wasnt married...

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Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com
 
Hey, Kodiac, do those three dots at the end of your post translate to "I could've been turned down by the NAA receptionist." ??! ;)

I'm going to have to give the NAA a closer look. Personally, I'd never pay over $500 for a Seacamp and the one time I offerred that much it was at a charity auction. Like I said, I have heard some people say there were some problems with it, butI'll have to investigate further.

Eric,

With the ranges you'd be likely to use such a gun, wouldn't you be just as well off (and better off in the bank) if you just ground the sights off the gun and not invested the money/time into the Novaks?

Also, what ammo are you carrying in it? Will it feed reliably with STs ??
 
Hey SB!

The same thing happened to a buddie of mine. Beretta uses a solid pin to retain the firing pin. If the material of the slide is good steel, maybe they'll go to the cheaper roll pin which, because of its spring steel's propensity to expand, won't rattle loose like a solid pin.

If I had known, I wouldn't bought one myself. Well, we have to live with our decisions and I should shoot the daylights out of mine to test it.

Gary
 
Kodiac, I apologize; but I feel compelled to stick up for the Seecamp!

Yes, the NA is a similar design and it is less expensive, no doubt it is a fine gun. My Seecamp has functioned flawlessly, so let's say they are equal in terms of mechanics.

Still, there is more to design superiority than "where the buttons are located"! Put the two guns side by side, pick them up, examine their lines. INMHO, the Seecamp has superior ergonomics, is more compact, more svelt and is a simply a much more attractive pistol.

I like Scott McDougall; but Novak sights on a NAA Guardian is silly. This is not a target gun and as Louis Seecamp himself put it "this is a 'stick it in their nostril and pull the trigger gun".

Louis Seecamp built the .25/.32 ACP for his well heeled Connecticut customers who found it burdensome to carry their custom Seecamp .45's in business attire. He considered his .32 a "real world" defense gun. He was one of the first to quietly advocate "having a gun" as the first rule of defense. In this and other engineering innovations he was way ahead of his time.

Mr. Seecamp realized that a .32 ACP pocket pistol is a very specialized weapon. His personal vision of what the gun is meant to do resulted in an extremely elegant design. Every curve is carefully executed with his purpose in mind.

The NA is nicely made and goes "bang" just fine. But the gun is slightly chunky and with sights, kinda of a joke. The grip is not as trim and the overall proportion less pleasing than the Seecamp.

Is the Seecamp worth it? I don't know. Is a Monte Blanc pen worth it; when a BIC writes just as well? $200 more? that's $10 bucks a year to own a superior Seecamp design
if you plan to keep the gun 20 years.

Seems worth it to me. But I can also understand someone going the cheaper routes


Best Regards, Kurt
 
Bryan Whited, when I mentioned a 'slide release' button, I meant a button that you push to remove the slide. I'm sorry If the term I used was ambiguous.

Rob, I am not the type of person that normally buys a lot of gadgets for guns, but I think that night sights would be a genuine enhancement to the Guardian. I practice firing in low and no light situations quite a bit and I like having those three dots to use as a reference in the dark, even if the target is close. Even so I haven't made up my mind yet about this mod. $290 is a lot of money. BTW, I carry Win. Silvertips in my Guardian. I've fired close to a thousand rounds through it now and the Silvertips have been the only 100% reliable brand I've tried.

Kurt, I think 'silly' is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think spending $400 dollars more on a gun that will not give any better reliability or functionality than the less expensive one is silly. I could pay for the Guardian, have the night sights installed and still have money left over for a few visits to the range, for what the Seacamp would cost. I don't think less expensive is always synonymous with cheaper. I respect the fact that you appreciate quality though, and I think you have the right to spend your money any way you want, as do I.


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Eric@Glock Talk
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/

[This message has been edited by EricGT (edited 12-31-98).]
 
Eric,

"Silly" certainly is in the "eye of the beholder" and I should have chosen a different phrase. I should have said that I believe sights on this size pistol are unnecessary.

Mr. Seecamp left the sights off the gun for practical reasons; but leaving them off was also a design statement. The clean slide was a radical break from the "symbolic" sights found on traditionl vest pocket .25's.

Every industry seems to have what I call "milestone" designs that epitomize a concept. They are not always a "first" or necessarily the most expensive. They are frequently rejected initially and often take time to catch on.

The Model T Ford, the Waring blender, the Timex watch, could all be included in this somewhat nebulous category of "milestone designs". The Remington 700 is a milestone design, a damn fine rifle, and a bargain besides!

I believe the Seecamp is a milestone design that best captures the concept of modern pocket pistol".

For me, that makes it fun to own; even if it costs a bit more.

You could look at it this way. You are willing to spend $300 for a design that includes night sights. I am willing to pay $400 for a design that doesn't!

I don't claim that the Seecamp is a "better" pistol or that either one of us will be "right" in our choice.

If I needed a pocket pistol and couldn't afford a Seecamp I could easily choose the NAA. In this case, I'm willing to pay more for something I find esthetically pleasing.

By the way, thanks for posting the neat pictures.

Happy New Year!

Kurt

Happy New Year

[This message has been edited by Kurt (edited 01-01-99).]
 
Hi Eric,

I could have been a bit more understanding on the "Slide Release" but automatically thought of it in the way the term is normally used.

Night sights for the Guardian is a choice that the user has to make but my thoughts are that they are not needed. As much as I like the Guardian, I still only consider it as a nose gun (if it ain't in the bad guys nose it ain't much good). The 32ACP just doesn't have enough power to be used at much of a distance. If the BG is 15 yards away and all I had was a Guardian I would be running, either away or to the BG for a better shot.
What it comes down to is if I'm far enough away that I need to use the sights them I'm to far away for the Guardian to be effective.
 
Dont get me wrong... The Seacamp is a wonderful little gun - I have wanted one for a long time - just cause it is such a celebrity gun for the pocket pistol group. But I have yet to find one for less than the cost of my HK. And let me see - I have only found 2 for sale in the last several years.

The Guardian is much more available, affordable - and just as good or better than the 'Camp.

Rob - She flirted with me first! Those three dots would have ment something a gentleman from Virginia like me just can't talk about.
:)

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Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com
 
I have a .32 acp and don't like it. The only thing I like about it is its small. It also belonged to my grandfather and is quite old. The only reason I keep it is that it has become some what of an heirloom. My father got it from his father and he wanted me to give it to my son. My son enjoys firing it as does my wife, because its bigger than a .22 and smaller than a .38. I bought an AMT .45 acp a while ago because of the concealability and the large caliber, but alas it is only acurate up to 10 feet. A great very close quarter gun though.

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Geez, I go out of town for a few days and my beloved Seecamp pops up in its own thread...

I'm with Kurt about the Seecamp. I paid $375 for mine back in the early '90's and don't regret it a bit. If I'm awake and dressed, the thing is with me. There are very few other guns on the market that can be carried as discreetly as often as this one. There is really no reason not to have it with you at all times. I carry Silvertips in mine. It has functioned flawlessly over the years.

As for the Guardian, I think it's a pretty nice knock-off of the Seecamp. It is, however, bigger, bulkier, wider, and heavier. When it comes to a gun like this, all of these attributes will come into play when deciding what to carry. My father-in-law (also a Seecamp owner/carrier) recently purchased a Guardian. After a couple of days of pants pocket carry, he switched back to the Seecamp. The Guardian printed more, and was heavier in the pocket than his Seecamp. The Guardian now sits in the safe...

I also agree that the sights (even low profile Novaks) are a bit superfluous on this gun. This is structly a close-up piece. If you are going to spend the additional money on the Guardian tune-ups anyway, IMHO your money would be better spent buying the original design (Seecamp) in the first place. However, if price IS an object, then I think the Guardian is definately worth looking at.

YMMV

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Kelly

Deo Vindice
 
How about a little different line of thought. For about $150, You can get a like new CZ-50 double action .32 ACP It may not be as small as the others, but it is at least as small as a Walther PP. The function of these pistols are excellent! No bang-bang-click sort of stuff. There are very few who will argue with the quality of CZ...Just a suggestion in the .32 world...Bailout
 
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