Bill DeShivs
New member
.32 acp is pretty darned close to a .380!
.32 ACP FMJ vs. 40 S&W hollow point
- Thread starter bricz75
- Start date
There's not much of a selection of .32 pistols.
Mostly, it's going to be single stack European antiques, zinc junkers, and the Keltec P32. I think there might be a single Beretta double stack.
There's a wider selection of .40 pistols, although none of them are going to approach the Keltec in size or weight. However, there are more modern options such as the Kahr CM40 or Glock 27 that some might find compelling.
Mostly, it's going to be single stack European antiques, zinc junkers, and the Keltec P32. I think there might be a single Beretta double stack.
There's a wider selection of .40 pistols, although none of them are going to approach the Keltec in size or weight. However, there are more modern options such as the Kahr CM40 or Glock 27 that some might find compelling.
Bill DeShivs
New member
There is the recently discontinued Beretta TomCat, the NAA Guardian .32, the Seecamp .32 in addition to the Keltec.
There is no .32 ACP FMJ vs. 40 S&W hollow point. Apples to orangutans is a pretty good analogy. What either cartridge does to ballistic gel is irrelevant too. It's shot placement that matters.
Sellier and Bellot, Fiocchi, and Geco are loaded to CIP specs. Not SAAMI.
"...is 2 seconds, a long time..." Yep. Sometimes it's enough. And sometimes it isn't. In Duello fire you get 5 seconds to raise your pistol, aim and fire one shot. 2 seconds matters. Believe the record for Pin shooting is a bit less than 2 seconds.
"...with a broad sword..." Broad swords are not stabbing tools.
Sellier and Bellot, Fiocchi, and Geco are loaded to CIP specs. Not SAAMI.
"...is 2 seconds, a long time..." Yep. Sometimes it's enough. And sometimes it isn't. In Duello fire you get 5 seconds to raise your pistol, aim and fire one shot. 2 seconds matters. Believe the record for Pin shooting is a bit less than 2 seconds.
"...with a broad sword..." Broad swords are not stabbing tools.
JoeSixpack
New member
+1
32 is no doubt deadly but that does not mean it's power is equal to a .40
It has other advantages you'd have to talk about but power ain't one of them.
Remington is made in America where our robust legal system prevents any business whatsoever from getting away with any shenanigans. I'm sure that sb is not as concerned.
Think about this. Your fmj .32 will hit with much less power than a compound bow with a reasonably similar diameter.
Did you know that the pointy little target points can't even reliably kill a rabbit? You will almost certainly fail to disable an opponent with that round. Even a hit
to lungs or heart will not disable, all it will do is poke a hole in them.
On a scale of 1 to 10 rating defensive handguns, from .44 magnum as 10, I'm having a hard time placing .32 fmj above 1, but I must. I put the .25 cap at maybe 1. .22 magnum may be better than the .25.
To me, the .40 most be at least a five. Smaller diameter, lighter bullet,lower velocity than the .44 magnum, obviously but where do we find that line that defines when we are simply wasting extra disabling power?
Think about this. Your fmj .32 will hit with much less power than a compound bow with a reasonably similar diameter.
Did you know that the pointy little target points can't even reliably kill a rabbit? You will almost certainly fail to disable an opponent with that round. Even a hit
to lungs or heart will not disable, all it will do is poke a hole in them.
On a scale of 1 to 10 rating defensive handguns, from .44 magnum as 10, I'm having a hard time placing .32 fmj above 1, but I must. I put the .25 cap at maybe 1. .22 magnum may be better than the .25.
To me, the .40 most be at least a five. Smaller diameter, lighter bullet,lower velocity than the .44 magnum, obviously but where do we find that line that defines when we are simply wasting extra disabling power?
Cheapshooter
New member
If you want to take out a barrier would you rather use a Smart Car, or a 3/4T Pickup?
Yes, a CNS hit is most likely going to result in an instant stop. That is if the bullet hits that small area of a running, punching fighting, attacking person. If the tiny .32 bullet actually reaches a vital part of the CNS with enough energy left to significantly damage it. But it is not going to expand enough to do a lot of damage to anything it does not hit directly.
A larger bullet, at the same, or more velocity, that expands to make an even larger wound, and delivers significantly more shock to the body could possibly disrupt the CNC without directly hitting it. Cause more damage to organs. Create a larger wound with more blood loss, and cause a more intense, and most often fight stopping amount of pain.
Yes, a CNS hit is most likely going to result in an instant stop. That is if the bullet hits that small area of a running, punching fighting, attacking person. If the tiny .32 bullet actually reaches a vital part of the CNS with enough energy left to significantly damage it. But it is not going to expand enough to do a lot of damage to anything it does not hit directly.
A larger bullet, at the same, or more velocity, that expands to make an even larger wound, and delivers significantly more shock to the body could possibly disrupt the CNC without directly hitting it. Cause more damage to organs. Create a larger wound with more blood loss, and cause a more intense, and most often fight stopping amount of pain.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Briandg-
Shoot the rabbit with a .45 Colt in the same spot, and you will likely get the same result.
No handgun has the power to simply immediately disable without a CNS shot.
Your rating scale is accurate- with the exception that the .25 and .32 have been working for well over 100 years. 1 &2 may be low, but they work!
Cheapshooter-
You just like to argue.
No handgun round damages tissue that it does not hit directly.
Why would you think a .32 acp hollow point would not expand?
There is no hydrostatic shock from handgun rounds. That requires 2000+FPS.
Anyone who could stand the pain of being shot with a .32 could withstand the pain of being shot with a .45 in the same spot.
Blood loss has little to do with stopping a fight. If it becomes an issue, it was a LONG fight!
As far
As I have said- if I knew I was going to have to shoot someone I would carry the biggest gun that I could.
Shoot the rabbit with a .45 Colt in the same spot, and you will likely get the same result.
No handgun has the power to simply immediately disable without a CNS shot.
Your rating scale is accurate- with the exception that the .25 and .32 have been working for well over 100 years. 1 &2 may be low, but they work!
Cheapshooter-
You just like to argue.
No handgun round damages tissue that it does not hit directly.
Why would you think a .32 acp hollow point would not expand?
There is no hydrostatic shock from handgun rounds. That requires 2000+FPS.
Anyone who could stand the pain of being shot with a .32 could withstand the pain of being shot with a .45 in the same spot.
Blood loss has little to do with stopping a fight. If it becomes an issue, it was a LONG fight!
As far
As I have said- if I knew I was going to have to shoot someone I would carry the biggest gun that I could.
There just isn't anything to offer by the .32. Even a hit to the spine has a reasonably good chance of deflection. That round shape won't do enough damage at that velocity to incapacitate a strong and focused individual. Does a hard core gang banger feel pain the same way as a choir boy does? That .32 ball, unless it hits somewhere that will positively paralyze the target, you can't remotely count on it to disable a human being. It's an awful risk to take.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Brian- You can't count on ANY handgun to disable a human.
Model12Win
Moderator
This is an armadillos to optometrists comparison. No way they are even remotely comparable.
JoeSixpack
New member
I doubt 32acp has been involved in more shooting fatal or not then .40S&W.
32acp is not a particular common round imo.. but I have no hard numbers to show you.
I'd suspect 22lr has been involved in more shooting then either of the two above combined.
It's cheap & common.
Because its likely been involved in more shotings it's probably also resulted in more deaths just due to sheer numbers.
But I wouldn't consider it superior because of that.
32acp is not a particular common round imo.. but I have no hard numbers to show you.
I'd suspect 22lr has been involved in more shooting then either of the two above combined.
It's cheap & common.
Because its likely been involved in more shotings it's probably also resulted in more deaths just due to sheer numbers.
But I wouldn't consider it superior because of that.
Joe tells the truth.
Do you want to know what cartridge has killed the most people?
It would probably be the 9mms. Maybe the nagant. Millions of murders during the last century. Even the lousy .25 acp blew open a lot of skulls in Katyn forest.
Honestly, what bearing does the body count have on whether one of the worst rounds in common use today is as good at killing people as one of the best?
For that matter, in Katyn, for example, many prisoners were first bayonetted, then shot in the back of the head, and then dropped into the pit to bleed out. Don't waste time arguing that the number of killings matters even a tiny bit, why would it? Maybe more people died in huppmobiles than pintos, but what does that matter? Pintos were better at keeping people alive.
Bill, your point about no pistol being guaranteed is completely irrelevant in a discussion about whether a pistol caliber probably will, or probably won't be capable of ending hostilities.
A kid near here tried to commit suicide and shot himself through the heart with a .44 magnum. he lived through that, he probably would have survived a .32, but it doesn't make a lot of difference. until whatever handgun a person is using carries a payload of high explosives that can vaporize eighty pounds of flesh, it can be taken as a simple fact. every shooter h as to just accept that the human body isn't really tough, it's kind of soft and squishy, and you can literally vaporize a half pound of flesh without injury to areas a few inches away.
Do you want to know what cartridge has killed the most people?
It would probably be the 9mms. Maybe the nagant. Millions of murders during the last century. Even the lousy .25 acp blew open a lot of skulls in Katyn forest.
Honestly, what bearing does the body count have on whether one of the worst rounds in common use today is as good at killing people as one of the best?
For that matter, in Katyn, for example, many prisoners were first bayonetted, then shot in the back of the head, and then dropped into the pit to bleed out. Don't waste time arguing that the number of killings matters even a tiny bit, why would it? Maybe more people died in huppmobiles than pintos, but what does that matter? Pintos were better at keeping people alive.
Bill, your point about no pistol being guaranteed is completely irrelevant in a discussion about whether a pistol caliber probably will, or probably won't be capable of ending hostilities.
A kid near here tried to commit suicide and shot himself through the heart with a .44 magnum. he lived through that, he probably would have survived a .32, but it doesn't make a lot of difference. until whatever handgun a person is using carries a payload of high explosives that can vaporize eighty pounds of flesh, it can be taken as a simple fact. every shooter h as to just accept that the human body isn't really tough, it's kind of soft and squishy, and you can literally vaporize a half pound of flesh without injury to areas a few inches away.
Last edited:
Bill, I've shot rabbits and squirrels with all sorts of things. There are many cartridges out there that don't care about our misconceptions or beliefs. A person who hits a rabbit with a needle profile arrow had better pin it to the ground. A blunt club point will smash bones and damage organs, it's like being hit by a car.
Can you tell me what part of the rabbit I should aim my .45 at if I just want to hurt him a little?
Can you tell me what part of the rabbit I should aim my .45 at if I just want to hurt him a little?
Cheapshooter
New member
You have facts to back that up?
The best thing we have available for standardized testing is ballistic gel. In every test I have seen there is a cavity larger than the expanded bullet diameter.
Actually in animal flesh (and bone) I have skinned deer shot with handguns, and muzzle loaders far below 2000 fps. In every one the damaged area was much larger than the diameter of the projectile.
If you believe presenting facts is arguing I guess you're right. I wonder what presenting unsubstantiated conjecture is?
reynolds357
New member
Why is everyone a fan of ballistic gel?
If I want to test a bullet, I go shoot me a hog in the shoulder. 1. Cheaper 2. I get to see what a bullet will do in a realistic winter clothing, bone, flesh stimulant. 3. The nasty vermin need shot anyway.
If I want to test a bullet, I go shoot me a hog in the shoulder. 1. Cheaper 2. I get to see what a bullet will do in a realistic winter clothing, bone, flesh stimulant. 3. The nasty vermin need shot anyway.
reynolds357
New member
Cheapshooter, I would have to agree with you. There is a definite energy transfer outside the area in direct contact with the projectile.
Cheapshooter
New member
^
Yup, as you know from actual experience in your previous post. In real flesh and bone.
Yup, as you know from actual experience in your previous post. In real flesh and bone.