.32 ACP FMJ vs. 40 S&W hollow point

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bricz75

New member
Obviously, a caliber war is not going to exist between the .32 ACP, aka 7.65 Browning firing a FMJ round and the .40 S&W firing a hollow point that penetrates sufficiently.

I noticed European loads such as Sellier and Bellot, Fiocchi, and Geco are loaded hotter than say Remington. Sellier and Bellot claim 175 ft/lbs of energy. The other two claim 160 ft/lbs of energy. I think those figures are out of a 4" barrel. I saw a video of S&B .32 ammo through a 2.7" barrel Keltec penetrate almost 14" of ballstic gel. Velocity was 875 fps. I guess the same ammo through a 3.5" or 4" barrel would penetrate 2 or 3 inches further. Less assume the longer barrel for the question.

Needless to say, there are .40 S&W hollow point rounds that will penetrate 16" or 17" in gel and expand.

All that said, just how much better is the .40 S&W hollow point at ending a threat against a bad guy? Assume all other things are equal like ability to place a good shot. Again, less assume the .32 pistol being used has a 3.5" or 4" barrel and is firing European spec ammo as mentioned above.
 
Not sure why you are comparing apples to orangutans here. LOL The .32 ACP in FMJ is not going to expand is not going to transfer nearly as much energy into the target. The .40 S&W hollow point could expand considerably http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#40SW . The energy transfer will be much greater with the hollow point as will the tissue displacement. If you can carry the .40 S&W and shoot it well, go with as much gun as you can shoot well.
 
The only 100% sure "stop" is a central nervous system shot.
It wouldn't matter if that CNS shot was with a .22 short, a .32 acp, or a 44 magnum.
Any other shot, it probably wouldn't matter either.
If I knew I had to shoot someone, I would prefer the .40- but for every day use, the .32 acp is fine with me.
 
Not sure why you are comparing apples to orangutans here. LOL The .32 ACP in FMJ is not going to expand is not going to transfer nearly as much energy into the target. The .40 S&W hollow point could expand considerably http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...ic-tests/#40SW . The energy transfer will be much greater with the hollow point as will the tissue displacement. If you can carry the .40 S&W and shoot it well, go with as much gun as you can shoot well.
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To put it another way, the 40 S&W hits harder and makes a bigger hole than the 32 acp. Those things matter.

Both rounds may penetrate to a similar depth in plain 10% ballistic gel. But they do not penetrate the same when passing through a barrier before striking the gel. Similarly they do not act the same when hitting bone, or several inches of muscle.

It's why, when possible always go with a more powerful round if you can shoot it well, in a gun that you can shoot well, that you've selected for the job at hand.

It's why most folks will recommend a 9mm handgun over a .380 if you have an option.

tipoc
 
Sellier and Bellot claim 175 ft/lbs of energy. The other two claim 160 ft/lbs of energy
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15 ft/lbs of energy. Seriously? Do you think that is a significant amount??

it's LESS than the amount of energy developed by dropping 2 gallons of water from a height of one foot. (by about 10%!)

seems to me comparing .32ACP and .40 S&W is comparing apples to orangutans.....
 
seems to me comparing .32ACP and .40 S&W is comparing apples to orangutans.....
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It would be the logical conclusion to the current thinking that the 9mm is bestist crowd. That the 15-20% larger hole left by a 40 or 45 is no advantage any more.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
The only 100% sure "stop" is a central nervous system shot.
It wouldn't matter if that CNS shot was with a .22 short, a .32 acp, or a 44 magnum.
Any other shot, it probably wouldn't matter either.
If I knew I had to shoot someone, I would prefer the .40- but for every day use, the .32 acp is fine with me.
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While I agree that a CNS may be the only 100% sure stop, keep in mind that exsanguination (bleeding out) is much more likely with the .40 S&W since the larger frontal area (plus whatever nasty hollow point design) will disrupt much more bodily tissue. There is also more chance of hitting blood vessels with the larger, expanding caliber compared to the round nosed full metal jacket. I've never been shot (and I hope to keep it that way). but I imagine getting shot by a .40 S&W hollow point hurts a lot more than a .32 acp.

I'm sure some may argue that better a .32 acp than just using your hands, but if you can carry either, I'd go with the more effective cartridge.
 
Since 'experts' say there is no such thing as 'stopping power' then the .32 ACP FMJ loads is fully equal to the .40 S&W JHP loads.

Are you a science denier? No? Then admit they are equal.

Deaf
 
And waiting for someone to bleed out while they are shooting at you is a sure way to get killed! It takes a lot of time for bleed out.
 
Science is one thing but seeing is another. Ballistics gel gives us a good way to see and compare behavior in a standard medium. The problem is that bad guys and dangerous animals aren't made of ballistics gel and neither are most of the other things in the world that might come between you. In the name of science, I recommend that you get together an assortment of water-filled jugs, bottles, and cans; expired food items and overripe produce; and various junk for simulated barriers. Take the appropriate safety measures and be sure to clean up when you're done. ;)
 
They are equal with a central nervous system shot.
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If I stab a fella in the spine with a stiletto and another in the spine with a broadsword, it's all the same since both opponents will collapse. To be fair let's replace broadsword with a Ka-Bar.

Left out of that picture is the messy fighting part. It's when we include that that we see a difference between the .32. 9mm and 40 S&W.

We could play this game for awhile but we all know, you carry the tool for the job.

The stiletto and the 22 l.r., .32 or .380 have their place. Each is deadly. Punching someone in the spleen, or heart with a knitting needle, or screwdriver is deadly. It's not likely you'd knowingly go into a fight with a screwdriver if better options are available. Same for the .22 and 32.

tipoc
 
It takes a lot of time for bleed out.
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That would depend on how many, and how big the holes are. As well as where...

:rolleyes:

I'd put a LOT of faith into a single COM hit, point blank with a 90mm or larger flechette round as being a dependable stopper, but I just can't CARRY the darn thing around all the time...:D:rolleyes: HE is just too unreliable, its a fuze issue...:rolleyes:

Energy numbers are just numbers. MASS matters more. Penetration to a vital point matters MOST.

It's not likely you'd knowingly go into a fight with a screwdriver if better options are available.
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Must not have been much better available to the punks who attacked Bernard Goetz....

There are some seriously stupid people out there. Once in a while the universe treats them the way they deserve. Sad for us, not nearly often enough...
 
10-15 seconds would be very quick for bleed-out. Usually much longer.

10-15 seconds is a very long time when someone is shooting at you.
 
So is 2 seconds, a long time.

But that's what's likely to happen. That they don't drop. You also can't count on them running away. It's also the case that in a fight odd things happen. You cannot expect a CNS hit every time, or even the one time you need it.

A 32acp is not the same as a 45 Colt, nor even a .380. One does more damage. Use the one that does more damage when you can. It increases the odds in your favor.

tipoc
 
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