FrankenMauser
New member
.308 can never be .30-06.
It just doesn't have the case capacity.
As such, neither can the 'lever gun .308s'. (.307 Win and .308 MX)
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To clarify a few points on .307 Win (7.62x51mmR) and .308 MX:
When "Winchester" decided to chamber a ".308 equivalent" cartridge as the new flagship for the Model 94AE Big Bore*, they also decided to use the thicker case walls of their 7.62x51mm cases, rather than the thinner walls of .308 Winchester. Some people argue that this was done to 'toughen' the cases, so they would be more difficult to damage while cycling through a lever gun. Others argue that it was to aid in containing pressure greater than the 94 was ever designed to handle. I have no opinion on the matter, other than disagreeing with the latter.
So, .307 Winchester cases were, at least initially, a rimmed version of 7.62x51mm, or 7.62x51mmR; and loaded to slightly lower pressure (52k CUP). Later on, Winchester got lazy or failed to consult original drawings when new tooling was made (multiple times, possibly), and case walls have been made both thin and thick since the '90s.
Like Winchester with .307 Win, Hornady and Marlin wanted to get in the game and made some choices about their own cartridge. They took .307 Win, pushed the shoulder back to prevent .308 Win from chambering, cut the neck shorter to work with a bespoke 160 gr FTX bullet, and opted for the thinner case walls of later production .307 Win cases, in order to regain some of the capacity lost to the long bullet, shoulder relocation, and short neck.
For .308 MX (and .338 MX that was driving development), Marlin also wanted to run slightly higher chamber pressure than .307 Win, but the standard 336 couldn't handle it. So, they made changes to the rifle, as well. Most notably, heat treating was a bit different, tolerances are tighter, and they went to a V-thread instead of the classic Marlin square thread (saving precious receiver and chamber wall thickness in the process).
To me, the most impressive thing about either of the 'lever gun 308s' is that they can get so close to .308 Win velocities with 160-180 gr bullets, but with lower chamber pressure. Some Hornady Superformance loads even exceed the velocity of some equivalent .308 Win loads. On the other hand, the 'lever gun 308s' fall on their faces with light bullets, when compared to .308 Win.
*.307 Winchester was the first chambering available when the Big Bore 94AE was released.
It just doesn't have the case capacity.
As such, neither can the 'lever gun .308s'. (.307 Win and .308 MX)
----
To clarify a few points on .307 Win (7.62x51mmR) and .308 MX:
When "Winchester" decided to chamber a ".308 equivalent" cartridge as the new flagship for the Model 94AE Big Bore*, they also decided to use the thicker case walls of their 7.62x51mm cases, rather than the thinner walls of .308 Winchester. Some people argue that this was done to 'toughen' the cases, so they would be more difficult to damage while cycling through a lever gun. Others argue that it was to aid in containing pressure greater than the 94 was ever designed to handle. I have no opinion on the matter, other than disagreeing with the latter.
So, .307 Winchester cases were, at least initially, a rimmed version of 7.62x51mm, or 7.62x51mmR; and loaded to slightly lower pressure (52k CUP). Later on, Winchester got lazy or failed to consult original drawings when new tooling was made (multiple times, possibly), and case walls have been made both thin and thick since the '90s.
Like Winchester with .307 Win, Hornady and Marlin wanted to get in the game and made some choices about their own cartridge. They took .307 Win, pushed the shoulder back to prevent .308 Win from chambering, cut the neck shorter to work with a bespoke 160 gr FTX bullet, and opted for the thinner case walls of later production .307 Win cases, in order to regain some of the capacity lost to the long bullet, shoulder relocation, and short neck.
For .308 MX (and .338 MX that was driving development), Marlin also wanted to run slightly higher chamber pressure than .307 Win, but the standard 336 couldn't handle it. So, they made changes to the rifle, as well. Most notably, heat treating was a bit different, tolerances are tighter, and they went to a V-thread instead of the classic Marlin square thread (saving precious receiver and chamber wall thickness in the process).
To me, the most impressive thing about either of the 'lever gun 308s' is that they can get so close to .308 Win velocities with 160-180 gr bullets, but with lower chamber pressure. Some Hornady Superformance loads even exceed the velocity of some equivalent .308 Win loads. On the other hand, the 'lever gun 308s' fall on their faces with light bullets, when compared to .308 Win.
*.307 Winchester was the first chambering available when the Big Bore 94AE was released.