.308 vs .30-06

You say potato, I say small block chevy. :confused::D

On a serious note, I have always heard that the .308 is a more inherently accurate round than the 30.06. Something to do with case design, shape, or something of that nature.

Slamfire seems to have somewhat confirmed that with his post about his friend that is a nationally ranked shooter.

Moby, that is an awesome rifle you have there. I had an Armalite AR-10(T) that I had to sell a few years back. I still kick myself for doing it, but it was for the right reason. (Son was born, I was unemployed)

I plan on having another one sometime. Maybe not the target version, but an AR-10 nonetheless.
 
With the usual factory 150-grain "deer cartridge" in a common barrel length around 22", there's not a nickel's worth of difference.

In my 26" barrelled '06 with max handloads, I'd get about 300 ft/sec higher muzzle velocities than a .308. Probably even better with 180s, although I never chronographed them. (Judging by comparative trajectories at my 500-yard range.)
 
I own so many 308s and so many 30-06s that I have lost count.
I have never been able to get good groups with either.

I think it must be me.
I can get good groups with 300WM.

Bart Bobbit was competing at Camp Perry decades ago with a 308 and making posts about how the 308 is slightly more accurate than the 30-06.
 
There's about a 100 fps difference in muzzle velocity for SAAMI barrel specs for both the .308 and .30-06 with 180-gr. bullets at their normal max pressures. Some folks with tight .308 Win. barrels shoot a 180-gr. bullet from factory ammo faster than a loose .30-06 barrel with factory ammo with 180's; a very normal situation.

The .308 Winchester was made a commercial cartidge during the development of what became the 7.62 NATO round by Winchester (I used to think it was Remington). And it was based on the .300 Savage case as shown in:

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/02/history-30-80-wcf-origin-of-308.html

'Twas the use of the .308 Win. and 7.62 NATO in NRA and military rifle matches starting in 1963 that 3 years later, few .30-06 rifles were seen in competition when either one was allowed. In 1966, the NRA and military bullseye targets' scoring rings were reduced by about half for those used up through 600 yards; too darned many unbreakable ties were shot. 5 years after that, the scoring rings on the 800 through 1000 yard targets were reduced the same amount. Bullets up to 250 grains have been used with great success in matches from both cases.

Afield after game, there's not much difference. Both can shoot bullets heavier than 200 grains with great accuracy in the field, but the .308 Win. needs a longer throat to do so. Before the .30-06 became commercialized, the .30-40 Krag was a favorite on the bigger game animals and many moose and bear went down from a well placed shot from one.
 
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coyota1 comments:
Well, if I can get a shorter bolt throw and a stiffer action with the 308, then I would lean toward it.
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Note that a long action Win. 70 with a short stopped bolt throw for .308 ammo is stiffer than a short or long Rem 700 action.
 
Attached is a Millett 6-20 X 50 TRS scope with an iluminated retical.
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............?........... Millett does not make a TRS in the 6-20x50 flavor. The TRS-1 is 4-16x50, and the TRS-2 is a fixed 10x. They also make the LRS which is a 6-24x56.....
 
Load the 06 to the same pressure you are seeing in the .308 and watch is very quickly walk away from the .308.
the reason manufactured ammo is loaded to such a low pressure number is so it won't blow up a garand. Modern 06 rifles will no doubt handle the same chamber pressure as its same model of rifle in .308, and make the .308 seem meager in comparison.

-scott
 
I haven't really changes my mind I just haven't done anything about it yet. I may go the used rout to keep cost down and wanted people's opinions on the question posed since I seem to see a lot more 30-06 on the market than .308. Based on all the responses, I think .308 is still the right cartridge for me. Maybe I'll find the right rifle at the gun show in town this weekend.
 
Scotts 4x comments:
Load the 06 to the same pressure you are seeing in the .308 and watch is very quickly walk away from the .308.

the reason manufactured ammo is loaded to such a low pressure number is so it won't blow up a garand.

Modern 06 rifles will no doubt handle the same chamber pressure as its same model of rifle in .308, and make the .308 seem meager in comparison.
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I think you need to recheck your information sources. What you've stated disagrees with what I've observed and found out; especially the manufactured ammo being low pressure to be safe in Garands. Military 7.62 and commercial .308 Win. ammo used in Garands was never loaded to low pressures. In fact, it had higher peak pressures than .30-06 ammo.

Note also that Garand barrels were proof tested with the same peak pressure .30-06 loads as commercial factory sporting rifles.
 
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In my years of handloading,39 years to be exact,the 30-06 will leave the 308 Winchester in the dust,when both are loaded to their full potential.

For example,in my 3rd edition Hornady reloading manual,using the #3031 150 grain Spire Point,in both the 30-06 and 308,the maximum velocity listed is 3100fps in the 30-06,and 2800fps in the 308,and this has been my experience of approximately 150 to 300fps difference between the two on my chronograph.

Now,using the #3070 180 grain Spire Point,maximum listed velocity is 2800fps in the 30-06,and 2500fps in the 308.

Now when both are loaded to standard military specs,they're pretty much equal,however,the 308 is close to max,where as the 30-06 is downloaded.

Over the years,I have thinned down my collection of rifles chambered in 308 Winchester,matter of fact,I no longer own rifles chambered in 308,because I can download the 30-06 to match the ballistics of the 308,but I couldn't load the 308 to match the ballistics of the 30-06.

Jeff
 
Note that a long action Win. 70 with a short stopped bolt throw for .308 ammo is stiffer than a short or long Rem 700 action.
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I wasn't aware of this. Are you speaking of all model 70's?
 
If I wanted to shoot over 200 gr I would pick something else other than the thirty ought tumbler. Ought six has been around forever and there r better calibers out there that r faster and flatter than old ought. The only advantage to the ought is u can pick up a box of ammo almost anywhere. Look into the 7 mag
 
JRI
For example,in my 3rd edition Hornady reloading manual,using the #3031 150 grain Spire Point,in both the 30-06 and 308,the maximum velocity listed is 3100fps in the 30-06,and 2800fps in the 308,and this has been my experience of approximately 150 to 300fps difference between the two on my chronograph.
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Your 30-06 barrel might have smaller bore and groove diameters. Who knows what peak pressure each had. A bad comparison. And Hornady's data is also skewed for the same reasons.

Nobody shooting their own factory sporters can get a realistic comparison between these two (nor any other two) rounds unless their ammo is loaded to and barrels's chambers and bores are at SAAMI specs, peak pressure's at SAAMI specs and the barrels are mounted in a fixed receiver. If using SAAMI spec ammo and barrels, then you're comparing just the two cartridges. When two different chamber, bore and groove dimensions are used as well as not verifying they produce SAAMI pressure specs, you're comparing too many dissimilar things at the same time and the data will be skewed. To say nothing of the muzzle velocity errors caused by humans holding the rifles.

SAAMI data for 150's from a .308 Win. at 62,000 PSI says 2800 fps and the .30-06 with a 150 at 60,000 PSI says 2900 fps. Both used the same batch of 150-gr. bullets. SAAMI spec pressure and velocity barrels for both are 24 inches long and have .3000" bore and .3080" groove diameters. Barrels are mounted in a Universal receiver hard mounted on a bench; it don't recoil at all. So based on each cartridge's design specs and compared in identical systems, the .30-06 shoots 150's a hundred fps faster than the .308 Win.
 
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Well Bart,thanks for the input,however,my chono,says 3092fps for a 10 shot string average for my load in my 30-06,150 grain spire point,#3031,cases have been reloaded 11 times thus far with this load,so, much better than what I ever received out of a 308.

Btw,this is with a 24" barrel.
 
JRI, 'twould be interesting to see what the peak pressure is for that 3096 fps 150. I've got that velocity with 155's in one my .308's with a 32 inch barrel using a known safe, normal max pressure load in a tight groove and bore dimension barrel.

I've shot 168's's from .308 Win. cases out the muzzle of a 24 inch barrel at 2900 plus fps; the barrel's bore and groove was only .0001" tighter than SAAMI spec. That's from a high pressure proof test round producing 65,000 CUP (81,000 PSI). With normal SAAMI peak pressures and barrels, it leaves about 2670 fps. Therefore, I think your 3096 fps 150 from a .30-06 case and 24 inch barrel's close to proof loads for it.
 
" Therefore, I think your 3096 fps 150 from a .30-06 case and 24 inch barrel's close to proof loads for it."

Just guessing, based on my own results through the years, but odds are that the load is likely around 55,000 psi--about the same as the .308.
 
Therefore, I think your 3096 fps 150 from a .30-06 case and 24 inch barrel's close to proof loads for it
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Nope,sorry Bart,the 3092 fps 150 grain load is 1.7 grains below maximum charge,according to the load manual,pressure is 57,200 psi at maximum charge,so obviously my 3092 fps load is slightly under 57,200 psi.

You mentioned you achieved similar velocity in your 308 with 155 grain and a 32 inch barrel,now,take my 3092 fps 30-06 load,and shoot it out of a 32 inch barrel,and it will STILL smoke the 308 Win.

As they say in the racing circles,"there is no substitute for displacement",the same pretty much holds true here. The 308 does not have the case capacity the 30-06 has.
 
I've owned my .308 since 1971 and its taken game from moose to mule deer. Very accurate and plenty of power. In contrast, I owned a 30-06 briefly and found the excessive recoil too much for me and sold it. I'm no fan of recoil.

I can load 200 grain Speer bullets in my .308 but velocity suffers. But I discovered that Nosler Partition 180's shoot flatter and penetrate deeply. So these Premium 180's are my favorite for truley big animals.

The hunter with a 30-06 rifle can shoot heavy 220 grain bullets. This may be considered an advantage by some. But I'm not convinced I'll ever need to shoot 220 grain bullets.

30-06 has been proven as a reliable big game cartridge wherever game is hunted. It's been around for over 100 years.

.308 has been proven as a reliable big game cartridge wherever game is hunted. It's been around for over 50 years.

Jack
 
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