308 vs 30.06 for brush

R

RED_beard92

New member
I own a 30.06 and love it. Extremely versatile. I use to own a 30 30 for a brush gun and it was a good caliber but I didn't like the loading gate so I traded the gun with no regrets. Now I am looking into another riffle and all I want to know is what would be a better caliber for a brush gun. It would mostly be used for deer and hopefully on a lot of other north American game. I want one that can shoot just about anything in modest range. I don't need to shoot out to 300 yards plus. Realistically 75 yards or so, for arguments sake lets say its a single shot and I am not going to reload. I will really appreciate any logical comments.
 
Not many decent cartridges which won't do just fine to 300 yards.

"Brush gun" mostly means a short, light, handy rifle. "Brush-busting" bullets are like unicorns: mythological.

I'm happy with my little Sako carbine. 7 pounds, ready to go. 19" barrel, .243.

Sounds like you could do well with most any carbine-length short-action rifle. .243, 7mm08, .308--they all work.
 
Art speaks the truth.

Between the two, the .308 is much better suited for your application. The .30-06 will work too, but the higher velocity is going to make an un-necessary mess of a deer at close range. Also the '06 will have more recoil and muzzle blast, and would be at it's best with a 24" barrel. The .308 won't give up much performance even in a barrel as short as 18", which would be better for hunting in thick brush/tight quarters.

I know you said a single shot, and that will work fine, but if you could find/afford a Savage 99 in .308 it would be a heck of a brush gun.

A compact bolt action is a good option too. My wife hunts with a Remington model 7 in .243. I find myself carrying it in the woods sometimes myself :)
 
The best brush gun is one that shoots flat enough and accurate enough to shoot through tiny openings in brush and hit the animal you're shooting at and avoiding the brush. Caliber is unimportant to a point. Traditional brush guns such as 30-30 etc. are not really the best choice for this because they lack the accuracy and flat shooting ability (even at 75 yards) for precision shooting. My rifles can be zeroed at 100 yards and the bullet will be no more than 1/2" above or below the point of aim from 50-130 yards and keep 1/2" groups @ 100 yards. That is how you shoot through brush.

I like a lightweight bolt rifle with a 20-22" barrel and a quality low powered scope to see better in low light. I prefer 308 over 30-06 only because rifles can be a bit lighter and you get a little less recoil. If I owned a 30-06 suitable for the job there is no reason to buy another unless you just want to.

If your 30-06 is set up as a long barreled, heavy rifle with a high magnification scope it is less suitable.
 
Traditional brush guns such as 30-30 etc. are not really the best choice for this because they lack the accuracy and flat shooting ability (even at 75 yards) for precision shooting.
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I disagree with that. There have been more deer killed with a .30-30 than any other cartridge, and they surely weren't all by a stroke of luck. The .30-30 is capable of taking deer out to 300 yards and the cartridge itself is just as accurate as anything else. What's a little inaccurate about it is the iron sights that are used alot of times or the side mount scopes like on the older Winchester 94's. A good scope setup and handloading can make alot of leverguns shoot MOA. I will agree that a levergun is not a benchrest target rifle, but they can be plenty accurate enough for hunting. I have a Marlin 336 in .35 rem that shoots MOA. A friend of mine loads for a Savage model 340 bolt-action in .30-30 and it shoots sub-MOA.

Sorry to get a little off topic
 
For this application, there is not a nickel's worth of difference between the 308 and the '06.
Pick the rifle you like better.
 
Any of the classic .30 caliber loads is a good brush cartridge. For a good brush gun, short, light, etc., etc., my favorite is a sportered Lee-Enfield in .303 British, but that's just me. If it was chambered in .308 or .30/06, I'd be just as happy with it. I have a couple of .30/06 and .308 deer rifles, but I don't like the longer barrels and scopes in the brush. They are great rifles for open country.

I certainly wouldn't switch to .308 from .30/06, or vice versa, if I already had one of them.
 
Traditional brush guns such as 30-30 etc. are not really the best choice for this because they lack the accuracy and flat shooting ability (even at 75 yards) for precision shooting.
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Horsefeathers.

A brush gun assumes short ranges, small openings, and above all, limited time to make the shot: Either you can make the snap shot when it is presented, or you can't shoot at all.

"Precision" is much less important than timeliness .... better a 4MOA rig on a 8" target @ 50 yards in time, than a .5MOA tackdriver ...... 2 seconds late.

FWIW, In my youth, I missed a shot with one of those "precision" guns at 30 yards ...... the 6x fixed power target scope on my 788 in .243 did not allow me to see the 3" branch 1/2 way between me and the deer - I killed the hell outa that branch ..... the buck was unimpressed......
 
.30-06 is unnecessary.
.308 would be more than enough.

But, if having a super-common chambering wasn't a requirement, I'd be looking at .500 S&W, .45-70, .450 Marlin, .444 Marlin, .35 Whelen, and .358 Winchester.
When I'm in conditions where a "brush gun" is justified, I'm also in conditions where letting the animal travel very far could be disastrous. So, putting a bigger hole in them is usually helpful. ;)
 
IMO,as far as the cartridges are concerned,there is not enough difference to worry about.Its a shade of grey thing.
Yes,the 3006 is a little bit more this and the .308 is a little more that,but,it does not matter.For deer in the woods,150 or 165 gr bullets,no need to change from whatever you have.

Now,what may be different is the rifle itself.If you have an 8 1/2 lb 24 in bbl 30-06,might you prefer a 20 in bbl 6 1/2 lb short action carbine?

Maybe.That is your call.How far do you walk hunting?

Could be $500 worth of practice ammo for the 30-06 would work good,too.
 
I guess I am in a different boat. I see a brush gun and some thing that shoots big heavy bullets at at least 250 grain but 400+ is better. But the most important thing is that it handles quickly.

at 50 yards most any gun is flat shooting enough

But, if having a super-common chambering wasn't a requirement, I'd be looking at .500 S&W, .45-70, .450 Marlin, .444 Marlin, .35 Whelen, and .358 Winchester.
When I'm in conditions where a "brush gun" is justified, I'm also in conditions where letting the animal travel very far could be disastrous. So, putting a bigger hole in them is usually helpful.
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I have to agree here. I think bigger calibers help "knock down" animals. I like my hunting guns to be .35+ (preferably .45+ ) in caliber. But I am not a long range hunter.

as far as a scope. At that range I think its a hindrance. I think that Iron sights or may be a Holographic or red dot sight work very well. If you want a scope go with some thing low power.
 
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there is very little difference between 308 and 30-06 no matter what range you are shooting at. depending on how short your barrel is the 308 may be better just because the 06 may have a stronger muzzle blast with a very short barrel. 06 handles the heavier bullets better.
 
When I think of a brush gun I see a short handy rifle in a big bore caliber, .45-70, .450 and .444 Marlin come to mind.
 
When I think of a brush gun I see a short handy rifle in a big bore caliber, .45-70, .450 and .444 Marlin come to mind.
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I agree though I would add the large hand gun calibers as well such as 44 mag, 454 and 500mag.
 
SSA said:
For this application, there is not a nickel's worth of difference between the 308 and the '06.
Pick the rifle you like better.
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That was my first thought as well, when the OP specified .308 v .30-06.

AllenJ said:
When I think of a brush gun I see a short handy rifle in a big bore caliber, .45-70, .450 and .444 Marlin come to mind.
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That was my second thought. When I know I'm going to be busting the thickets, I'll either carry my Handi in .45-70, or my Handi in .30-30. At the ranges in the thick stuff, it doesn't make any sense to carry anything else. Having a short, handy, lightweight rifle makes a lot of sense when you're fighting saw-briars.
 
For this application, there is not a nickel's worth of difference between the 308 and the '06.
Pick the rifle you like better.
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I would agree! :D


From a practical sense, if you are looking at close range shots, I'd look at big bores like .444, or 45-70, or .44 mag. For that matter, with Ohio's deer hunting arms restrictions, I've learned its hard to beat a 12 guage slug from rifled barrel if you want it drop fast, and they are now accurrate at ranges of 150 yds or better, and not deflected nearly as easily as light bullets. If one shot is okay with you, I'd be considering my son's Ohio deer weapon of choice, a .50 Inline Muzzleloader with a 2x scope.

I'm not a fan of high power, high velocity rifles for short range shooting.
 
Hard to beat a 45-70 lever gun for your purpose.
Compact and hard hitting rifle for moderate range.
I hunt with several different calibers but when I really need to kill something I grab the 45-70.
 
To me a "brush gun" is short, light weight, easy to carry and fast to the shoulder. Personally I would be looking at something like a Rem Model 7 or, Win 70 Classic Featherweight or similar size rifle in a 7-08 though a .308 would also be fine, just too close to the 30-06 to me to justify a new rifle. For me it would also wear a good low power scope in the 1.5 - 4 range and be of good quality, I prefer the scope to pick an opening to shoot through. Light fast and easy to shoot are what I would aim for. YMMV.
 
as far as a scope. At that range I think its a hindrance. I think that Iron sights or may be a Holographic or red dot sight work very well. If you want a scope go with some thing low power.
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I have a .444 Handi Rifle that I would very much prefer to have iron sights, but it currently only has a scope rail.

I topped it with a 2-7x33mm Redfield. At 2x, close-range target acquisition is no problem. It worked great at 75 yards and 25 yards on last year's bull elk, in thick new-growth pine. And, on this year's elk hunt, I shot a grouse out of the air with it, at about 20-25 feet (using a .410 shotshell load in .444 brass ;)). I snapped the rifle up, put the crosshairs on the bird's beak, and... bang, tumble, dead on arrival.
 
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