308 vs 260 vs 243

Olympus said:
Then for my rifle reloads, I bought a single stage press. It took me all of about an hour to realize I made a huge mistake. Doing a batch of 50 cases one stage at a time was incredibly boring and what I considered a waste of time. If I wanted to load single stage, I could have used my old turret press just like a single stage. And I frequently get interrupted, someone at the door, my wife needing something quick, or my son needing me. So having to walk away from the bench with a batch of 50 cases partially completed and trying to figure out where I left off was difficult and frustrating.
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With the amount of painstaking case prep I do, I can't see how the turret press would help me for my rifle loads. Maybe it's overkill. I clean, trim, chamfer/chamfer/deburr every time. The only operations I do on the press are depriming, sizing, and seating (all separate).

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Have you ever shot at a thousand yards? Thats usually the domain of more specialized rifles set up for that instead of off the rack deer rifles. It could be done but not as well as a dedicated target rifle.

You have the best with your 30-06. And heck yes on reloading. If you will reload the 06 is all you really need. Full power loads for you to hunt with and reduced loads for the kids. Your kids aren't going to be making 300+ yard shots. Learn to hunt and you should be able to get within 150 yards of any deer and most likely much less. You can spend the money saved by using what you already have to glass bed your rifle and upgrade the optics.

Hornady has reduced loads listed for about every common rifle caliber. I made reduced loads for a small 5'1" sixteen year old girl using a model 7 in 7-08 with 120gr bullets loaded to 2600fps and she killed 4 deer with it on a youth and private hunt. No problems with recoil at all.

But if you just want us to validate your desire to get a new rifle then go ahead. Get what what you like or what was recommended. Everyone is up for a new gun.:D

But whatever you do get a reloading kit. I am 38 years later still using my Rockchucker press and see no need to upgrade especially for rifle reloading.
 
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"...within 500 yards on paper up to 1000 yards..." If it's strictly target shooting, any of those 3 will do, but you need to know the ballistics. They all drop like bricks past 300 yards. A 130 grain .260 drops 13" between 3 and 400. .243 is roughly the same with a 95 grain bullet. So is a 165 grain .308.
As mentioned, the biggest iffy thing is availability of ammo in small places. The .243 and .308 will be there. The .260, just a maybe, but unlikely. Mind you, if there's a Wally World and your local one has .260, the rest of 'em probably will too. Still no guarantee though.
 
FiveInADime said:
With the amount of painstaking case prep I do, I can't see how the turret press would help me for my rifle loads. Maybe it's overkill. I clean, trim, chamfer/chamfer/deburr every time. The only operations I do on the press are depriming, sizing, and seating (all separate).

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That's what I meant. You're resizing a batch of 50. Then you change out your die on the press and adjust it if you don't have the preset collars, then you charge each one of the 50 cases, then you seat a bullet in each one of the 50 cases, then you have to take the die out and put in a factory crimp die (which I like to use). But say you get interrupted in the middle of charging stage. You've got some cases charged and others not. When you get back, you have to look and see which was the last case you charged. Gets tricky when you're trying to look inside 17 or 22 caliber necks.

I do everything all on my turret press. I deprime, resize, reprime, charge the case, seat the bullet, and use a factory crimp die. I pull the handle 4 times and I get a completely loaded round. I'm not left with a batch of cases all in some stage of the process. I have two buckets, ready to load brass and ready to shoot rounds.
 
I keep waffling between replacing my Rockchucker with a Turret or a Co-Ax. :eek:

I deprime, tumble, size/prime, wipe case lube off, trickle from a powder drop, and seat. The case cleaning is what keeps me from a turret, but I want to speed up my time loading. Today I am thinking of doing my .243 with 105s for 500 and in and 115s for 501 and further on a Co-Ax.

Your kids aren't going to be making 300+ yard shots.
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My 14 year old has had 5 tags so far, two Pronghorn, one deer and two elk. He filled those tags with 30, 310, 345, 350 and 500 yard shots. First 3 with .308 and last two with .243. They both shoot offhand standing groups into 3" or less and 500 yard groups into 6" or less. Just takes practice. :D
 
MarkCO said:
I keep waffling between replacing my Rockchucker with a Turret or a Co-Ax. :eek:

I deprime, tumble, size/prime, wipe case lube off, trickle from a powder drop, and seat. The case cleaning is what keeps me from a turret, but I want to speed up my time loading. Today I am thinking of doing my .243 with 105s for 500 and in and 115s for 501 and further on a Co-Ax.



My 14 year old has had 5 tags so far, two Pronghorn, one deer and two elk. He filled those tags with 30, 310, 345, 350 and 500 yard shots. First 3 with .308 and last two with .243. They both shoot offhand standing groups into 3" or less and 500 yard groups into 6" or less. Just takes practice. :D
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I would buy a Co-Ax but the Chucker I got for free out of my grandpa's junk pile seems to make ammo accurate enough for me. On paper, I think the Co-Ax is the best ss press design but it's a lot of money for a (hypothetically) incremental increase in precision.

Forster dies are my favorite. I don't mind paying extra for those.

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All the cartridges you list are good ones. The fact is we have a ton of overlap ballistically speaking with all the choices available to us.

The .308 would have the most factory load options from your group. The .243 and .260 would be more in the middle of what you already have with the .243 having far more factory options.

The .260 and 6.5 Cred would be the better target cartridges for out to 1,000 yards. There are a few more options for factory loads in the .260 over the Cred. The Cred is supported pretty heavy by Hornady and Nosler for factory loads. The .260 has quite a few more manufacturers of factory ammo.

The 7mm-08 was also mentioned and it's a very good round too. It's closer to the .308 wise but produces a little less recoil. Factory load options are almost as many as the .260 and 6.5 Cred combined.

The 6.5x55 Swede was mentioned and it would go along with the .260 and 6.5 Cred ballistically. It's an old round and tends to be loaded on the light side with the few factory loads available. It is true hand loaders round.
 
"I have a 22LR, 223 & 30.06." "...why get a 308 when I already have a 30.06 (passed down from generations - Win Model 70 Pre 64)."


Never had a use for the .243 (I know the internet babies are going to throw their tantrums).

When younger I wanted many different rifles in many different cartridges...

Now with older children who are having their own children and a young daughter plus a profession that requires me to be out of the country half the time, free time is hard to find.

Although I like to reload, SHOOTING is my hobby. There just was not enough time to reload and shoot. My solution was to evaluate my real needs and favorites then get rid of the rest which I did.

This left me with the .223R, .308W and .45-70. This left 2 large "gaps" between these 3 cartridges.

What I wanted was just one cartridge to fill each gap...

Figured the .243W was too close to the .223R and the 7mm-08 too close to the .308W. At the time the 6.5 CM did not exist so I went with .260R. If I had to decide now I likely would stick with the .260R. But, there really isn't enough difference between them to matter.

Whether the .260R or 6.5 CM, pick the one that meets YOUR NEEDS best!

T.
 
I'll have to disagree with the 243 being "too close" to the 223. They are not remotely close at all.

And I don't know about "internet cry babies", but I've never been in a situation where I needed anything more than 243. But I live in the Midwest, so I'm not hunting elk or moose. Maybe if I lived out west I'd want a little more gun like the 260 or 6.5CM. But for me, I see now need to shoot anything larger than the 6.5/260 family and the 243 is the sweet spot for the kind of hunting I do.
 
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Well I know I'm late to the topic, but since you have a .30-06 getting a .308 isn't going fill any gap you perceive. The .308 is just way too close to the .30-06 to need one if you have the other. That leave .243 Win or .260 Rem and I only have the .243 Win. I love the .243 Win, but if buying a factory rifle I'd probably opt for the .260 Rem.

For long range shooting there are really only three rifles that are suitable for the .243 Win allowing the use of 105 grain bullets like the Hornady A-Max or BTHP and that's any Savage or Remingtion with their 1:9.25 twist. The only other rifle is the Ruger Precision Rifle with its 1:7.7 twist, which should allow the use off the 115 grain DTAC and Berger bullets. Most .243 Win rifles use a 1:10 twist and that won't always stabilize a 105 grain A-Max depending on elevation or atmospheric conditions.

The .260 with its normal 1:8 factory twist will stabilize all the current mass produced long range bullets in .264 diameter. If you are worried about ammunition availability you might consider changing to a 6.5 Creedmoor. The6.5 Creedmoor is getting more factory support, and the .260 is fading from popularity. The 6.5 Creedmore factory rifles are twisted correctly for the same bullets and not that far behind .260 Rem in performance.
 
I love the 6.5 Caliber

I own a 260, 6.5 Grendel, and a 6.5-06. Having a 30-06 and a 308, your assessment is correct. They are equal to 150, but the 06 takes over after that. I bought a 260 Ruger Compact for my DIL, and she loves it. The 260 will push 100s over 3100 from 22", surpassing the 243. You can get 120s to 2800 and 129s to 2750. I prefer 140s in my 6.5-06 at 2935. You will shoot the 260 much more than the others after you shoot a box. My first five 260, 120 Speer SP, fell into .6".
 
I'll have to disagree with the 243 being "too close" to the 223. They are not remotely close at all.
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That would depend on what one's interpretation of "Too Close" is. For me, I would put the .204 ruger, .22-250, or the 220 swift as to close to the .223 rem. It could be the bullet diameter and not the ballistics though. The .260 rem would be right between the .223 and .308. I must not feel it's too big of a gap since I go with the Small, Medium, and Large plan for my bolt guns with the .223 rem, .308 win, & .300 wyb mag as my choices.
 
jmr40:
There are no decent 25 caliber bullets available...
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Where does this horse puckey come from? A 110gr. accubond at 3250 ft/s out of a .25-06 is laser flat (+- 3" point blank range of 320 yards) and is more than enough to wallop a deer farther than it's ethical to shoot - I'd say I would stop trusting the terminal ballistics at 710y, not that I'm advocating shooting that far.

Recoil is trivial in a normal weight gun.

If his goal is to hunt medium game, it's hard to imagine a better round.
 
Either will work, I have all them EXCEPT the 260. But I have a couple 6.5 Creedmoors.

I don't know if match ammo is available for the243 or not, but I don't think it matters. You buy Hornady 95 Gr. SSTs you'll have an excellent 1000 yard match round. They shoot.

Actually there are several brands of excellent factory ammo. Same with the 308 and 260.

If you go to the 260, to get the most accuracy you should go to a long action, for best results the bullet needs to stick out further then most short actions allow. If you want a 6.5 in a short action, go to the 6.5 Creedmoor, again lots of factory ammo available for that.

Your '06 would be too close to the 308 to make much difference, but the 308 is my "go to" long range round.

I'm a big fan of the Model 70, I have two featherweights (257 Rbts and 270 Win) both excellent shooters.

If you want a mid cal., light rifle, look at the Ruger American Predator. I got my wife a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 CM, was so impressed I decided I wants a 6.5 in a light rifle for antelope/deer hunting. The Predator weighs in at about 6.5 lbs. and I got mine for less then $400. It can hold its own with wife's RPR in 6.5.

The Ruger American is a highly accurate modest priced rifle. It also comes in 243 and 308 (among other calibers). I know for a fact that it will work well past 1000 yards.

Again I prefer Model 70s, I built my wife's 243 on a Winchester action, even got the original Model 70 stock. Its a bit heavier then my featherweight but not much.

My Model 70 308 is heavy, but its a target model, put together by the AMU. Much heavier then I would want to pack hunting, but an excellent long range target rifle.

Those are just my favorites. There are other brands probably just as good. I'd go to the Gun Store and handle as many as possible. Find one that fits you best.

As to your choice of caliber, either one you listed (and others) in an out of the box factory rifle will be more then adequate for shooting 500 yards and farther.

After all its the shooter when it comes to long range.
 
After all its the shooter when it comes to long range.
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I'd love to be able to shoot just 20 rounds in a 1000 yard tube at STP to see what is "possible" without the wind and environmentals. :D
 
The .243 is almost perfect for what you describe, though so are the 7-08, 257 Roberts, 6.5 CM and a few others. However .243 ammo is easy to find, recoil is very mild and with decent bullets its a stone cold killer. I don't really notice much difference in recoil between my Rem & in 7-08 and my .243 Ruger, however my wife and smaller sized folks can certainly tell the difference. My wife doesn't want to shoot my 7-08 at all, but will shoot me out of reloads with her .243, which I load for essentially making reduced loads for it. I have never thought of the .243 as a varmit round, I think of it as a light medium game rifle, that is perfect for white tail sized critters and a little overkill on varmits, though it will do the job certainly. The rifle choice is yours, the Mdl 70 Featherweight is a sweet little rifle, Rem Mdl 7, Ruger Americans etc. etc. Honestly as much as I like my remingtons if I were going to buy one right now, it would probably be one of the Ruger American models and take the $$ saved and but a better scope on it.
 
Somewhere between where you are, and the folks who want to set you up for 1,000 yard match shooting is probably where you will be most comfortable.

.243, .260, 7mm-08, & .308 are all the same case. You are shooting approximately the same amount of powder from each. The only real difference is .24. .26, .27, or .30 caliber bullets.

Bigger bore means you can shoot heavier bullets and heavier bullet recoil more.


I think at this point, the RIFLE matters more. Most rifles available in .308 are also available in .243, and some in .260.

I am hearing faint chuckles from the grave of the .244 Remington, now that the .243 Win twist isn't fast enough to satisfy some shooters. ironic...

As for the fellow who loses his place if he walks away from loading on a single stage press, there are several "tricks" to keep easily keep track of just what point any single case is at, in the loading process.

Two loading blocks, and/or keeping cases upside down until powder charging. Putting a bullet upside down in the mouth of a charged and checked (weighed charge) case, in the loading block. Works for me, for the past 45+ years.

I started with a single stage, then got a turret press. Went back to the single stage (especially for rifles) used a progressive for a few years, and went back to the single stage press.

I don't use a "factory crimp die". I know how to properly prep my brass, and have no problems using the seating die for crimping in most calibers, when a crimp is needed.

There are a couple of pistol calibers I load where I do use a separate taper crimp die, because they came that way.
 
My 14 year old has had 5 tags so far, two Pronghorn, one deer and two elk. He filled those tags with 30, 310, 345, 350 and 500 yard shots. First 3 with .308 and last two with .243. They both shoot offhand standing groups into 3" or less and 500 yard groups into 6" or less. Just takes practice.
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Marko all I can say is your sons are exceptional shots. Are the offhand 3" groups at 100 yards or longer than that?
 
Marko all I can say is your sons are exceptional shots.
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Indeed, given that the 10-ring on the NRA SR-1 target for 100y standing slowfire is 3.19 MOA in diameter, the 10-ring for the slowfire prone stage (600y, but similar) is 1.67 MOA in diameter, and he's claiming his tykes shoot 2.88MOA and 1.14 MOA respectively. So apparently all it would take is appropriate sighting, and these marvelous children would shoot clean targets at the national matches :D

*cough* BULL *cough*
 
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