308 semi auto vs bolt rifle

Kraig's comment:
Problem is, the CMP doesn't recognize the AR10 in it's matches. So NRA guys start whining cause they can't shoot their rifles in EIC matches or other CMP games.
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Good point. Here's another that effects folks wanting to shoot Palma matches or even get on the US Palma Team.

The other issue is for those shooting high power rifle matches using Their 30 caliber Garands. No problem shooting NRA and CMP matches with it. But it's no longer allowed in Palma matches. Back in about 1990, I wrote the first rule for the NRA High Power Rifle Rule Book stating any rifle in .308 Win./7.62 NATO or .30-06 could be used. The reason was so folks who only had an original Garand, M1903 or M1917 .30-06 could still use it in Palma matches shot in the USA. That got struck some years ago by the NRA High Power Committee and now says the rifle used in Palma matches has to be chambered for the .308/7.62 mm NATO or .223/5.56 mm NATO cartridge case. Folks who used to be able to use their 30 caliber Garands can no longer do so. Only those Garand owners whose barrel has a 7.62 NATO chamber can.
 
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As far as I know, all the reamers used on the US Palma Team's rifles are pretty much standard SAAMI spec ones except the leade will be a bit short so the Sierra 155's will be pushed into the lands a bit when the round's chambered. That the only critical chamber point for the ammo.

The rest of the chamber does not have to be a perfect fit to the case except for having a 1.630" headspace (or whatever allows about .002" of head clearance for issued ammo). All the ammo (new cases or full length sized ones) will center perfectly up front in the chamber anyway.
 
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Long Range Hunting's link has a good picture but it's to coarse to see what the chamber dimensions actually are. Excellent info on more recent Palma reamers.

The benchrest.com article's a good one for info.

Note the chamber neck diameters. There's lots of clearance on ammo with .3084" diameter Sierra Palma bullets and the .3445" chamber neck. Ammo neck diameters' typically been in the .337" to .338" range; .003" or more clearance around the neck of a loaded round. Chambers are not "tight necked."
 
Bart, my groups at 300 will run from anout 1.5 smallest, to 3.0 largest.

I consider the inherent accuracy of the rifle/scope/shooter to be well defined in the average of five each, five shot groups.

Of course, this is not a bench rest test.
 
Ben says the inherent accuracy of the rifle/scope/shooter to be well defined in the average of five each, five shot groups.

OK. Then how does one decide which of two shooting systems is the most accurate when one's set of five 5-shot groups ranges from 3 to 5 inches and the other's group sizes go from well under 1 to over 8 inches when the average group size of both systems is 4 inches?
 
Back to what the OP asked....it boils down to money. But not on the rifle. An accurate bolt gun - and with computer controlled machines factory rifles now are very good- is still cheaper than an accurate semi auto usually. This means the shooter has more cash to spend on optics....a pretty vital consideration if you ask me. That extra grand on optics can get rather important way out yonder.

From a degree of experience you can get a semi auto to shoot rather well. The most accurate I have ever fired is a PSG1 which is nice, but very pricey. A friend of mine shoots very well with a RRA in .308, which is tremendous. Personally, I prefer bolt actions....but to each is own. If you like what you have, you will shoot better with it.
 
A good bolt action will cost MUCH less than a good semi.
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No doubt. I don't think anyone can name a centerfire semi-auto that'll shoot MOA (or exceptionally close) from the factory, with factory ammo for less than $600-700. If there is I'd love to know about it. I'd probably jump on it in a heartbeat, if it was proven to have that accuracy and feed with reasonable reliability.
 
A good bolt action rifle will give you the most accuracy for the dollar,although I do have a DPMS AP4 that shoots pretty darn good for a 16 inch carbine.
 
Bart says how do we choose

I would say that if the spread in group sizes is as extreme as your example, we look for a problem in the system. Possibly an ammunition problem. More likely a rifle problem. MOST likely a shooter problem.
 
One of each.

If we are alike at all, you will probably get one of each.

Choose one today, take your time, put a good optic on it, develop a good load, and shoot it for awhile. Then as time and funds allow, start looking at the other, and narrow down your selections, and find the one which speaks to you in that department.

Over the years I have learned that I enjoy buying and shooting firearms, and one cannot have too many! Just don't be in a hurry, take your time and enjoy the process.

308 is a pretty good choice in cartridges. I do find, however, that I shoot my bolt rifle more than my semi auto, it shoots more accurately, has better glass, balances better, and truth to tell, I just enjoy it more. It helps that the brass is easy to find and I don't have to "do the pickin' chicken" after expending a magazine of ammo, searching about on the ground and picking up brass.

Good luck in your search. :)
 
My $.02 is about the same as everyone else's...
Better accuracy for the buck with the bolt gun, due to simplicity alone.

But I didn't see anyone mention that mag length might be a limiting factor with the AR platform, if you want to load heavy VLD's to the lands?

No particular knowledge of that specific application, but if it's an issue with bolt guns, it seems logical it would apply more to the AR...
 
I think you need to figure out if you want a carry gun or a dedicated bench gun. You aren't lugging a Remington Police around the deer woods up mountains and down for a week long hunting trip. If you want a semi auto, they are more complex and thus heavier than a comparible bolt rifle. If you don't particularly need blistering rapid fire and 4 or 5 rounds in the magazine are enough, a good Ruger, Remington, Marlin, Savage, Howa, Kimber etc will serve you well for a long time. Lighter contour barrels will heat up faster than a bul barrel but keep in mind if you are hunting and not planning to shoot from a bipod where weight is a plus, even a sporter barrel can be very accurate in 308.
 
I got my M1A for nostalgia and fun shooting at the range - until I put a scope on it. It's 100% reliable, accurate, and balances well - but it is heavy. If I can just find a load with the Nosler 150/168 gr. Ballistic Tip that shoots as good as my target stuff then I think it would make a good feral hog gun. For deer I'll stick with by bolt actions.

M1ADownrange.jpg


BestM1ALoadwithNosler155grCC.jpg
 
With new machining and everything, it doesn't matter if its semi auto or the bolt action. Bolt actions are more elegant and have a legacy over semi auto.
I own PTRs, G3, and M1. LeEnfield M4 chambered 308 is my favorite. I would suggest buy a new PTR91. Nothing beats this in the market than this neat thing. http://ptr91.com/

Buy LC or Seneca Armory ammo and off you o to an enjoyable 308 experience.
 
rc, you mention lighter contour barrels will heat up faster than a bull barrel but keep in mind if we're are hunting and not planning to shoot from a bipod where weight is a plus, even a sporter barrel can be very accurate in 308.

What does barrels heating up have to do with this?

Properly built with all the right stuff, neither bolt or semiauto rifles change point of impact as their barrels heat up.

Nor does the barrel weight or profile matter. As long as they whip and wiggle the same for each shot, best accuracy is at hand; they do in both types.
 
Ill just chime in to say that IMO a Semi is not a good " beginners " rifle to go long range with . They can be just as accurate out past fort mudge , but you have to be on your game to wring it out of them , The basics of position, trigger control , and follow through cannot be cheated at all if your shooting much past 500 with them . I love mine but would honestly tell someone starting out on the long range game to get a bolt just because it is imo easier to get good results faster .
 
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