.300 win "MAG" thoughts

I've been a .300 Mag fan for 20 years. Mostly for the flat trajectory. And no one else tags my deer (which can happen in Wisconsin if you don't drop it on the spot). I tolerate recoil pretty well. First rifle was a .30-06.

It doesn't wreck the meat IMHO but it tears up the innards pretty good making cleaning kind of a mess. I can deal with that.

New rifle this year is a .270 Win. only for the sake of trying something new and different. Should work fine on whitetail.

I don't judge anyone else's preference and I don't expect them to judge mine. Shoot what makes you happy.
 
If you like the 30-06, that is great, but do not think that magnum rifle owners are in-experienced, lunatic newbees attempting to compensate for inferior marksmanship, shot placement and or anatomical endowments.
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I hate to say it, but this is probably, in fact, the reason for the stigma of "magnum" owners.

The "only shoots once a year" type is probably more inclined to buy said rifles. More experienced persons know that a good 'ole '06, with experience is just as deadly as a "noob" with a mega canon.

And sellers are inclined to sell "magnums" to said inexperienced people for one reason, and one reason only. Money.

The guy at the counter gets a commission for the amount sold at the cash register. The "once a year" shooter could spend the same amount for rifles of the same caliber, but the cost of ammo is much, much higher for the mag.

So, he gets talked into the more expensive round, and the guy behind the counter is telling him "This is what you want. That ought 6 is weak compared to this"

Anyway, people don't like getting told they bought the wrong thing and got suckered, so they become defensive. Just my opinion. Mags DO have their place. It's just that 99% of the time, they are simply not needed.

Kills me to see a guy on TV shooting at a scrawny, fenced in deer in TX, with a 300WinMag at 200yds lmao :p

I bet the report is what kills the deer half the time lol.
 
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As others have said, I don't think there is a great animus against the .300win mag. Certainly nothing like there is for the 5.56nato when talking about military cartridges.
It certainly isn't as popular for deer hunting as it was in the past. The .300 win mag is not as popular as a 1000yd target rifle as it once was either.

I think demographics drive the former. As the majority of hunters age, we tend to lean toward lighter cartridges. A lot of us older guys made a "virtue out of necessity" and talk up cartridges such as the 6.5swede.
It's possible that people who talk about magnumitis are full of sour grapes. Luckily for us lighter standard cartridges do handle the game we hunt in the situations we hunt it in.

As far as target shooting is concerned; the .300 win mag doesn't win as much as it used to. Just like the .308 displaced the .30-06, the .300 win mag was displaced by other cartridges.

Speaking of the .30-06, the main reason people like it is propinquity.
That's not to say it isn't a good round, it is. If the US had fielded the 8mm Mauser and the Axis the .30-06 American hunters would be using the 8mm instead. The last 100 years wild caters and reloaders would have been putting the same amount of work with the 8mm.
So the .30-06 is a good round, but it is one because of its ubiquity.

It's interesting you point out how close the .30-06 is to the .300 win mag. Many people who argue in favor of the .30-06 over the .300 win mag do the same.
In fact it's the same argument used between the .308 and the .30-06. The only difference is the the .30-06 doesn't gain an advantage with a longer barrel and heavier bullets in comparison to the .300 win mag as it does with the .308.

Basically "more power" is an ladder argument. If you like the .300 win mag because it's more powerful, then why not go with the .300rum? The end of that argument is the .50bmg.

The .300 win mag is a fine cartridge, but imho it is a niche cartridge for larger game and longer distances than the norm.
 
I think the dissing is based on the fact that Belted Magnums became the thing to come out with, when in fact a belt was not needed for the lower calibers (and no itech data what the cutoff point is, though I am guessing up around .375 is where it begins to be a help). I think the gun manufacturers deserve some bashing, but then if it sells.......

And regardless, it got some awfully good rounds that have remained popular not becasue they are belted, but because they perform well. Its one way to update a caliber (just a fact of life, older guns can't handle modern pressure so you have to change something to ensure it won't fit!) 300WM is one, 7mm is another along with .338 and probably others.

My rifle was a 7mm Remington Magnum. It could take down a moose or a caribou and at whatever range (then I missed a nice 450 yard shot becuase I misjused and did not trust it and held too high, go figure). I never hunted sheep but it was a possibility and it would have covered that nicely.

On the other hand, Louis anc Clark went across a good chunk of the US wiht black powder, running into grizzles and surivign on an air rifle when powder was wet, miles away when they lost their supply etc. You can get by with something less than a magnum.

30-06 is a great all around cartridge. I have seen pictures of my Step Dads father with a Grizzly as big as a jeep he took with an 1903. Tough men in those days, I would not shoot one like that with anything less than a 76mm anti Tank Gun!

Me, I am not for or against magnums. I like calibers that work for what you want, and the magnums they came out with do that. If Remington has just made it a 7mm, it would have been fine as well, and maybe it would never have sold and we would not have it.
 
I have used the 30.06 as the main deer caliber for about 24 years. The 30.06 is a popular round for big game and does a great job. Along the way I bought a Model 70 300 WIN. MAG. just for future long range hunts in another place that offered long range shots maybe. Most of my hunting is in thick woods with limited shots to 125 yards unless I spot a deer in a field. I hunted with the .300 WIN. MAG. a few times until finally I shot a doe at 20 yards. It struck like a lightening and the deer ran about as far as if it had been hit by a 30.06. The 300 WIN MAG. will put them down, but I went back to the 30.06 for a while until I got the urge to buy a 7 MAG. For some crazy reason my rifle battery would not be complete until I bought a 7 MAG. A good buddy of mine had used one for years and he swore by it. I decided to try one and use 160 or 162 grain bullets on whitetail deer. So far since 2009, I have taken 3 whitetail deer with it. It does ok and I will use it this year along with my Browning BAR 30.06, but when it is all said and done I will eventually go back to the 30.06 or maybe buy a lite weight rilfe chambered in the .260 REM. One does not need a magnum on most deer, but if one chooses to use one, then that is their choice and business. Rifle choice is kind of like if I choose to drive a Chevy truck and not a Ford. It is free country and thank goodness we have a choice. :)
 
I havent hunted in a few years but when I did I used a 300WM. I bought it as my first deer rifle, a Winchester model 70 with a cheap scope, off a buddy for $300 with about 80rds of ammo. I was a poor soldier at the time. By the time I hunted it, I was reloading. I hunt in GA. Every deer I shot I hit from 30 to 300m and they were all DRT. Dont recall there being a lot of meat damage. I just loaded 150gr nosler BT to a reasonably accurate velocity and called it good.

That was before the internet, so I guess I missed out some good opinionating.

Growing up in western NY state we could only deer hunt with a 12ga slug. The recoil of a 300wm was nothing surprising.

Since then my rifle collection has increased. I keep saying I am going to get a "proper" GA deer rifle, like a 260rem but every time I have some gun money I end up with something I want more. Still would like one...
 
I'll join!

if a .300 win mag was just called a .300 winchester would that make it better.
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For some people, yes, they would probably be more excepting of the caliber. However, there would likely be people would be less accepting of the caliber. I believe this because there are many people who don't really do their own research and testing. They only believe what they are told at the gun counter or in the newest, modern gun magazine.

I think one big reason some people/hunters are not accepting of the magnums is because they hear people saying things about how they NEED the new magnum to for deer hunting when those same hunters and shooters have used the .243 and .270 for quick, clean kills for all their life.

The flipside is a lot of people have the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality". Thankfully not everyone has this mentality or we'd probably still be shooting muskets. Progress is a good thing!

Now that I live out west with all the wide open spaces, I can see a legitmate use and sometimes need for the magnums in general shooting and hunting. Living back east, the longest shot you would ever take was maybe 200 yards, if you were lucky. My thought was what good does a magnum do? Nothing really except burn more powder. Not everyone is exposed to the same set of circumstances and therefore need different tools to get the job done.

In the end, don't worry about.. shoot what you like and have fun.. its your money, its your day off and you should spend it how you want to.
 
I never worried about what anyone thought about my 300mag.My gun My bullets My shot.If you need to kill it the 300 win mag WILL get it done.
and it does it well.:D
 
Not entirely off subject, but an interesting story here. Elmer keith was on safari, and blasted a cape buffalo with his double .577 nitro. The thing had a tickbird on it's back that fell dead along with the buffalo. Heck, it may have been killed by the shockwave from the cartridge, but I'm more inclined to think that the cartridge may have had some over powder wads. I've read articles about loading the NE and black powder express cartridges, and many times, the procedure included packing "farina" or felt wads over the powder to keep it in a single mass, instead of laying loose on the bottom of the shell.
 
Mags

I really do not know why people argue all the time over cal and kills me, its kind of a joke on us really. We on this website are a bunch of gun nuts and enjoy shooting and hunting to the extreme. Me, I own 2 .243s, 2 25-06s, a .270 and 2, 30-06s. Just bought a Sako .300 WM., why i do not know except that i got a good deal on it. First time with any magnum but i wanted it plain and simple. Now what does make me mad is when i buy a rifle for say $800 dollars in 25-06 and another guy shows up at my local range with a $300 Stevens 200 in the same cal and it out shoots my Ruger Hawkeye by 3/4 of an in at 100 yds with same ammo,same scope(117 gr fed powershoks) now this pisses me off. Simply put some companys flat out produce better barrels and better guns. My rifle was prettier and his shot a whole lot better in my book and we both did the shooting on each rifle. I will never understand this as long as i live, not this day in age, with computers cutting the barrels and steel being of higher quality,go figure to say the least. Im not much of a Savage fan but that guy had a good chuckle and he is going to make me one yet. Also own a couple of .308, just a lifetime time gun guru, now owning his first magnum.
 
Every Ruger 77 owner I've talked to says they shoot like mine. Well under an inch at 100 yards. I keep hearing in these forums how horrible they group and I for one just don't understand it. I don't think they make any more "bad shooters" then Remington or Savage. And just as many good ones. ;)
 
I am not a fan of most magnum cartridges. You sacrifice a lot and gain very little in real-world terms for most hunting situations. You pick up about 20% more recoil, a lot more muzzle blast, and it translates into very little usable energy. The main advantage of magnum cartridges is the flatter trajectory at longer distance, which the OP pointed out, so if you are no good at getting closer to game, or are a lousy judge of distances, a magnum cartridge may actually help you. As with anything, there are reasons to have a magnum cartridge, but I generally do not hunt dangerous game, so it comes down to choice. I seem to remember something about this being a free country, giving people the freedom to choose. Even if it seems silly.
 
I only own 1 rifle with magnum in the name, and that's a 22 Mag...:D:D. I once traded a guy a Browning 223 WSSM for a model 700 in 300 WM. I traded that 300 before I ever shot it. I'm recoil sensitive, so mags are pretty much out for me, 270 is the biggest thing I have in the safe.

However, shoot whatever makes you happy...who cares?
 
The reason Elmer Keith and hunters of his day liked bigger rifles like the .375 H&H wasn't because they were a magnum, it's because they fired bigger, heavier bullets that would hold together on marginal shots at larger animals. Elmer loved the 35 Whelen, too, and shot the record grizzly with one firing the 275 gr round nose at about 2300 fps. Premium bullets were unknown in Elmer's time, and big heavy bullets were needed for penetration.

Magnums for velocity and trajectory considerations became popular through Weatherby in the 50's, followed closely by the Winchester .300 and .264 magnums. Comparing trajectories of the .308 Win., the 30-06 and the .300 WM with 165 gr BT bullet and a 3" radius Point Blank Range (PBR):
.308 Win = 277 yds, 30-06 = 295 yds, .300 WM = 314 yds.

The drops at 400 yds below line of sight for the three are:
.308 Win = 19", 30-06 = 15", .300 WM = 12".

The magnum increases range only about 10% over standard calibers, and does it at the expense of increased weight, increased recoil and muzzle blast, and increased $ cost. And for most people, decreased accuracy, which completely negates the benefits of the increased trajectory.

The main problem with magnums is at closer ranges, where unless you have a premium bullet, they tend to "blow up" and under penetrate, wounding game. At .308 and 30-06 velocities, just about any cup and core bullet will perform well on medium game, and the heavier bullets work well on the bigger stuff. A 200-220 grainer from an '06 just hammers elk and moose and is OK for big bears, because the velocity is low enough for the bullet to hold together until it gets in the vitals, and this without the expense of premium bullets and much more powder.

Today's magnums have their place, but only if they can still be shot well, and if the extended range is needed (>350 yds). Unless I hunted where the AVERAGE shot was 300+ yds, I would take the 30-06 or .280 Ackley every time for medium game, and for bigger stuff like moose and big bears, the 338-06 or 35 Whelen. The 180 gr GMX or the 200 gr Partition are real killers in the .300 WM at any range.
 
I say that if you like it and shoot it well. use it. I doubt anyone in my area needs a mag of any kind to kill the small deer here. But if that's what they want then let them have at it.

I do think that with some of the younger guys that they think that having a magnum in the name makes them tougher or more macho.

If I lived further out west or up north where the game is bigger and the shots further. I may step up to the magnum's. But where I hunt a 75 yrd. shot is a long one. And a 100 pound deer isn't that hard to kill.

You play with your toys and I'll play with mine. Then we can all get along just fine.
 
I figure folks ought go hunting with whatever they're happy with. Not my business.

But since I know from experience that I can make Bambi go flop, DRT, at 350 and 450 with my '06, I don't figure to trade it off anytime soon. So? Who cares? What difference does it make?

Worrying about a bit of noise or recoil or comparative amounts of powder or drop and all that is better done around an old pot-bellied stove with a cup of coffee that's had a tad of bourbon dropped in it.

The .300 Maggie has 20" less drop at 500 than an '06? So? Just hold 20" higher. :D:D:D
 
Kd7sgm:

I have shot two antelope, one with a 30/06 and one with a 308 Norma Magnum; both antelope were hit in the boiler room. When I field dresser them I found no difference in the wound channels: both bullets left about a two inch hole when they exited. The heart and the lungs were destroyed.

Semer Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
My dislike for magnums, is admittedly, an ignorant one. I dont like them because of SOME of the people that use them.

Where I live there are a lot of Bubba Ballisticians. I cant tell you how many times I have mentioned that I hunt with an '06 or a .308, and have been told.."Ohhhhhh, well, your just gonna spend all day chasin wounded animals, you need to buy a(insert favorite magnumhere, usually a .338 or 7mm)"

Do Magnums have better ballistics than their little brothers...why yes, yes they do...They have more energy and less drop at longer ranges, whats not to like...So academically I KNOW magnums are better for most things..but I dont use them, because, well....I guess I am ignorant
 
I use a Savage 7mm Rem Mag when I deer hunt because I have more confidence in it than any other rifle I own. The magnum tag doesn't do that for me the rifle does. If it were a .270 or .280 or .25-06 and I felt the same way I would use that rifle instead.

I have a .30-06 that I keep because it was my first deer rifle. I have killed a lot of deer with it. It stays home because I shoot the other rifle better.
 
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IMHO, the win mag has no advantages over the 06 on everything from moose down. Where the mag earns its advantages, is at distance. I shoot a wsm now, and I've taken deer at 1050, and black bear at 400. I was lucky enough to hammer a grizzly in 05 with a 200gr partition at almost 300 yards. It would be a stretch to do that with an 06. I know the 1k on the whitetail would be out of the question. For those, who can handle, the recoil, the 300win mag is great. For anything smaller than moose, its a little overkill. The reason for the strong following behind the 06 is that it was the sword of our armed forces in the last great war. It just so happens that the 06 has killed EVERY creature on earth.
 
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