300 savage why no love?

With the military adopting the 308, it pretty much guaranteed the success of that cartridge.
Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions.
I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?
And many match shooters have learned the importance of throating the chamber to allow heavier bullets to sit out of the powder column in the 308.
Would do nothing but help the 300 Savage also.

I know that Shilen, Douglas & E.R. Shaw all make prefit barrels for Savage bolt actions, with 250 Savage being listed as a standard chambering.

And with the 131gr Blackjack Ace, the long distance shooters are taking a harder look at the 25 caliber. Berger is due to release their 133gr & 135gr bullets any day now.

But with any of those the standard 1:10 twist barrels just won't stabilize them. You need a 1:7.5 twist.
 
Std7mag, Savage did make a Model 40 "Super Sporter" bolt action in the late 20's to early 30's, but I don't think it ever caught on. I have one, but I had never seen one before I found it on GB. Growing up at Camp Shanty Point (just a few miles past Hyner Run State Park), the Savage 99 in 300 Savage was popular (never saw a 250-3000), along with the Remington 760 in 30-06. Beyond those two, it was a real menagerie. BTW, my Dad killed his last deer there with a 7 Mag he bought for an elk hunt in Idaho. I have it now.
 
std7mag said:
With the military adopting the 308, it pretty much guaranteed the success of that cartridge.
Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions.
I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?
And many match shooters have learned the importance of throating the chamber to allow heavier bullets to sit out of the powder column in the 308.
Would do nothing but help the 300 Savage also.

I know that Shilen, Douglas & E.R. Shaw all make prefit barrels for Savage bolt actions, with 250 Savage being listed as a standard chambering.

And with the 131gr Blackjack Ace, the long distance shooters are taking a harder look at the 25 caliber. Berger is due to release their 133gr & 135gr bullets any day now.

But with any of those the standard 1:10 twist barrels just won't stabilize them. You need a 1:7.5 twist.
Click to expand...
The Remington 722 bolt action was introduced in 300 Savage shortly after WWII...the short action version of the 720/721 precursors of the 700. I believe the pre 64 Winchester M70 was chambered for the round also as well as custom mausers and other factory bolt and autos, etc.

The 99 was produced in lightweight and short barreled carbines as well as full size rifles..My model 99F (Featherweight) has a 22 inch barrel and mounts a Burris 2.5x20 Fullfield and is considerably lighter than my Marlin 336, 20 inch barrel, in 30-30 (Redfield 4x32 1"tube)
 
Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
With the military adopting the 308, it pretty much guaranteed the success of that cartridge.
Click to expand...

I don't see where the commercial success of the .308 due to military adoption has any real connection or bearing on the .300 Savage.

Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions.
Click to expand...

Take a moment and remember the era of its design and realize that it was 1920, not 2020, and things were quite a bit different, then. America's love affair with the bolt action (and recognition of its advantages) really didn't exist at that time. It was beginning, but had not yet come close to the popularity it had later on. The very fact that the model 99 wasn't a bolt action, and yet could be had in a cartridge that rivaled (or nearly so) what could be had in a bolt action was a BIG DEAL to many people. And if you think the 99 is too heavy, pick up a Win 95 (or worse, an 1886) and see what they heft.

yes, the .300 Savage model 99 was heavier than some .30-30s, but it also had (generally) a 24" barrel and fired a round several hundred fps faster than the .30-30 (generating more recoil) so a little extra weight was actually a benefit. And, it shot nice pointed bullets, too!

I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?
And many match shooters have learned the importance of throating the chamber to allow heavier bullets to sit out of the powder column in the 308.
Would do nothing but help the 300 Savage also.
Click to expand...

Putting any cartridge in a rifle where the bullet can be seated out far enough to not take up any powder space always improves the velocity, if you use that "extra" space for more powder. Putting a round in a repeating rifle where the magazine allows that length is a different matter, and not one so easily managed.

I know that Shilen, Douglas & E.R. Shaw all make prefit barrels for Savage bolt actions, with 250 Savage being listed as a standard chambering.

And with the 131gr Blackjack Ace, the long distance shooters are taking a harder look at the 25 caliber. Berger is due to release their 133gr & 135gr bullets any day now.

But with any of those the standard 1:10 twist barrels just won't stabilize them. You need a 1:7.5 twist.
Click to expand...

Again, I don't see where .25cal barrels and loads are relevant to the .300 Savage....

Until the .308 Win showed up in commercial sporting rifles in the 50s, the .300 Savage was the "biggest stick in the smallest package" available to deer hunters, and was pretty popular because of that. Yes, there were more powerful rounds, but they came in larger heavier rifles. Yes, it weighed a bit more than the lightest deer rifles, but it also fired a more powerful round. Overall, it was a very efficient and effective compromise and was the one caliber still being produced in the model 99 when that rifles production was ended. Even today, that's a pretty impressive record, I think.
 
"I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?"

Take a look at the .300 Savage case. A good, hard look. It's literally already an Ackley Improved. There's virtually no avenue to make the kind of improvements that Ackley did with so many other cartridges, such as the .250 Savage.

The .250 Ackley Improved gains about 15% case volume.

There have been people who have improved the cartridge (primarily for use in Contender pistols), but from my understanding the increase in case volume is about 5%.

Given the shoulder profile on the .300 Improved cartridges I've seen I think it would be a problematic cartridge in a lever action rifle.
 
I'm waiting for someone to Ackley Improve the 35 Remington. I know! They could re-do it on a blown out 308 case and call it....

;)
 
There is absolutely nothing the 300 Savage can do that the 308 can't do a little better. And the 308 come's in about every bolt action rifle made and I think I read you could get in in AR type rifle too. Walk into about any gun store in America and there's ammo for the 308, not so the 300 Savage. 300 Savage is certainly an acceptable cartridge just just not quite up to the 308 in any rifle! People select cartridge's based on what they read in the magazines and on the internet, writer's and internet user's don't go wow over something, it's gonna fail! If the 300 Savage had been the military cartridge and the 308 the poor step sister, it would probably be the 308 going under. No company can make money selling rifles and ammo in cartridge's that don't sell! Go around to gun store's and not much in the way of 300 Savage ammo or guns! And seldom anyone mention's it on any internet site, it's all but totally ignored. I think the only reason it was around as long as it was was because of the mod 99 rifle. Good as it was, the 99 is a relic of the past, just like the mod 94 and the 30-30. Today people praise AR type auto loader's and always bolt action's. But look what's happening with bolt actions. Wonder how much longer we'll be able to afford one with a wood stock?

With a 300 Savage I could hunt all of N. America and not feel under gunned but the 308 gives just a bit more in a short action rifle and in long action the 30-06 even a bit more. Don't read a lot about any of those three on the internet compared to the different magnums and God forbid our cartridge isn't capable to 400yds! Let's face it, most cartridges are capable to 400 yds the 300 Savage included. But your not gonna read much about that! If it was in the shooter, using the right load the 30 carbine would probably make a 400 yd deer rifle! In every cartridge we have the ability of the rifle and cartridge is pretty much gonna depend on the ability of the user. And I think the success of any cartridge is going to depend on the words of writer's and now days, the unseen faces on the internet. Would the 270 exist today were it not for Jack O'Conner? When's the last time we read anything from anyone praising the 300 Savage?
 
Well I think the 308 defiantly hurt the 300 Savage!
If for no other reason than firearms manufacturers dropping the 300 for the 308.
I think it's main and strongest attraction is in the nice old rifle you might find it in. Knowing you still have an effective cartridge for most big game hunting is a bonus.
If I ran across a 99 or 81 in 300 Savage that I liked, price would be the only thing possibly keeping me from buying it.
Not the chambering.
 
Yep, this old relic will praise that old relic. The .300 Savage was born in 1920, the .308 in 1952...these young kids today! I am a member of a hunting camp that began in 1917. Yes, we are now in the new camp on the site, built in 1941. But if you showed up the opening day of deer season (now the Saturday after Thanksgiving, moved from the traditional Monday), you would find a number of those relics in the gun rack. Ironically, you would only see one .308 - mine. Even that is a rebarreled Mauser from 1935. Not everyone is a traditionalist, but tradition is indeed strong in the hunting community. Practically, the longest shot I know of at that camp was 165 yards, measured with one of those new fangled lasers. Made with a 30-06 (now there's an oldie), but that's not even much of a stretch for a 30-30. Don't equate "love" with "popularity".
 
There's absolutely no doubt that the .308 hurt the .300 Savage... badly.

Acceptance by the US military is an immediate avenue to a cartridge's popularity in the United States and always has been, for a lot of different reasons.

Look, for example, how quickly the .223 overtook the older, and once pretty popular, .222.

The .308 did resolve one nagging shortcoming of the .300 Savage -- the short neck and short, sharp shoulder angle. Those two factors have, over the years, combined to give reloaders problems in lever and semi-auto rifles, problems that aren't as pervasive with the .308.

The short neck also means that the .300 doesn't handle bullets over 165-gr. nearly as gracefully as the .308. With bullets in the 150 to 165 grain range, however, the .300 Savage absolutely SINGS.

My 1936-era 99EG loves 150-gr. flat base bullets, which is, oddly enough, the bullet style and weight used in the original Savage design to mimic (as closely as possible) the specifications of the military .30-06 loading.
 
" I don't see where the commercial success of the .308 due to military adoption has any real connection or bearing on the .300 Savage."

Well, realistically, you're one of the only ones, then. Within 5 years of introduction of the .308 as a military (2 years after it was introduced commercially by Winchester) and commercial round every manufacturer had added it to their lineup of standard chamberings, including Savage.

Sales of .300 Savage chambered rifles, primarily the Model 99, quickly fell off a cliff.

It didn't help that Winchester, the big stick rifle manufacturer in the country, never chambered the .300 Savage in a standard-production rifle. A few Model 70s were made in .300, but they are highly sought after, and are very expensive, collector's items.

I'm probably one of the biggest fans of the .300 on this board, and have been for a LONG time. But I recognize that the .308 quickly stole the .300's thunder as the short-action .30 caliber round in the United States and worldwide.
 
"Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions."

The .300 Savage in the 99 was quite popular for many years... It was the biggest seller for Savage in the 99 line. It offered something that no other manufacturer could offer at that time in a lever action -- .30-06 class performance in a lever action that could take pointed bullets.

The last American lever action that could do that was the Winchester Model 1895. Compared to the 99, the 95 was heavy, awkward, and the stock design left a LOT to be desired. More than a few people over the years described the 95's stock as a recoil multiplier.

The 95 also wasn't particularly popular in the US.

Total 95 production was about 425,000... not terrible, but not great... but, when you subtract the guns produced for Russia during WW I, the sales figures become rather dismal. 95s manufactured for Russia account for nearly 300,000 of the 95s total production. Another 10,000 or so were manufactured for the US military during the Spanish American war (war ended before they were delivered) and most of those went overseas.

Subtract out also those chambered for .303 British, and total civilian production production for US consumption was about 150,000 over a nearly 40 year manufacturing span.

Savage was selling that many 99s every few years, and after 1920, most of those were chambered in .300 Savage.

As someone else pointed out the 99 was also not a particularly heavy rifle even compared to the 1894 Winchester or the Model 1893 (later the 36, later the 336) Marlin, and neither of those rifles were chambered in a round that approached the .300's ballistics.

In my own experience with the three rifles, the Winchester 1894 is my least favorite simply because it, for me, holds true to the "recoil multiplier" factor of stock design. The Marlin's stock design is much better, and, at least for me, the 99 has the best stock design of all.

Also as others have pointed out, in 1920, when the .300 was introduced, the bolt action hadn't yet risen to the position it now holds. Lever actions ruled in the United States popularity wise. It took three wars (Spanish-American, WW I, and WW II) to really turn that around in this country.
 
my rem 722 in .300 savage is alive and doing well and a fine 300 yard deer-bear rifle, i also have a rem 722 in .308 win and it is a fine 300 yard deer-bear rifle. the 300 yard limite is my fault not either rifles fault. i find both very easy to load for and keep the speeds very close in both, 150 gr nosler BT at 2700 fps.
 
rem 722 in 300 savage 42 grs varget 150 gr bullet at 2700+ fps at 44,300 cup. piece of cake for the rem 722 action. rem 722 in .308 win with the same bullet 45 grs imr 4895 at 2700+ fps at 50,000 cup. in the rem 722 bolt actions the 300 savage does quite well. not a animal in the world that would know the difference between the 300 savage and the .308 win when shot.
 
"Would the 270 exist today were it not for Jack O'Conner?"

Or perhaps we should ask; would Jack O'Connor have risen to the level of popularity he did as a gun writer without the .270? ;)
 
Well, given that the .220 Swift still exists today despite years of enmity from a very peeved firearms press in its first 30 years...

I'd say yes. The .270 would still be with us.
 
many decent rifle calibers and rifles have gone by the wayside over the years, it seems today the rifle clan is always moving towards the newest wizz bang rifles-calibers. i like the older rifles and calibers and as a reloader i can still shoot them with a little work getting cases-bullets, i try to keep at least a hundred case and bullets for them and the .300 savage is only one of them.
 
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