300 H&H

T

tahoe2

New member
This is a question for the Magnum Mongers out there. A friend of a friend has one for sale, and asked if I wanted to check it out.
I don't have a price, make, or model yet, possibly checking it out tomorrow.
Just wanted to get everybodies take on it, good or bad, and what kind of price for a rifle in decent condition.
I don't need it, but if it's a good deal, it would be an investment.
I reload so ammo availability is not a concern.
I've heard it is the softest kicking of the 300 mags (which is good).
 
It's in between the '06 and the .300 WinMag for power and recoil.

Most folks comments through the years have been very favorable. Articles from the 1950s and earlier showed use with 220-grain bullets for the big bears. And, at one time, it was a winner in Wimbledom Cup competition.
 
In an older, classic rifle it would be a good round to have for nostalgia sakes. They work as well as ever, although the newer case designs of the 300 WM and 300 WSM are more efficient. I wouldn't want one in a newer, modern rifle.

While technically it is in between 30-06 and 300 WM it is a LOT closer to 300 WM in terms of velocity and recoil. Were talking about 25- 50 fps with equal bullet weights in factory loads, and by hand loading the 2 can be identical. If you hand load you can also load any of the 300 magnums down to near 308 levels if you don't want the extra speed so they can be very versatile.

The 300 WM was introduced, not to be faster than the H&H, but to be shorter and fit in standard length actions. It proved to be slightly more accurate.

The 300 WSM did exactly the same thing to the 300 WM, it fits in an even shorter action while giving darn near equal speeds and even better accuracy.
 
@tahoe2: I"m not entirely sure, but I don't think the actions of mass produced rifles were any longer in terms of action length and action screw spacing. The winchester model 70 was the first mass produced rifle chambered for it in 1937, and as far as I know it was the regular long action. However, modifications to the magazine and magazine slot certainly had to be made to accommodate the longer cartridge, and certainly the bolt throw was longer. I have also seen mauser actions with a "vee" notched in the top of the receiver ring to allow the ejection of the longer, loaded .300 or .375 H&H.

The attractiveness of the .300 is for the traditionalist. It's a very "retro-cool" cartridge and extra retro-cool if you do not call it a magnum, but instead call it the Super Thirty, as Holland & Holland originally named it.

A couple of years ago (2010?) ruger chambered its #1 for the .300 H&H, with a 26 inch medium heavy barrel. That would be the rifle to have. With that rifle you can dream of sipping coffee with Isak Dinesen on her plantation in Kenya and then shooting non-dangerous plains game with her boyfriend, Denys Finch Hatton.
 
@.300Wthby: When you say magnum length, what does that mean? I know ruger makes a bigger action for the african cartridges, like the. 416's, but that's not what we're talking about. Are we? My .300 win mag is built on a standard long action simply opened up for the belted cartridge. Not to belabor this, but were the actions (the win 70's and Rem 721's and later 700's) actually longer as measured from the receiver ring to the back, or simply the same length as a long action, but modified? I don't really know. I'm just curious, like tahoe.
 
A .300 Winchester would be considered a standard length round much like a .30-06. The .300 H&H would be considered "magnum" length along with the .375H&H and most .30 caliber and up Weatherby rounds.

Standard length rounds like .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, and the .300 & .338 Win Mags will fit in most 98 pattern mausers. The "magnum" length rounds require something like a 1917 Enfield to work with only basic modification. The 98s can be made to fit but require a bit more machine work.

As far as I know; Remington has just the short action and long action. Short being .308 class and long action being everything else. Then there is the model 7, which I believe is a hair shorter than an M 700 short action.
 
If you buy one you have to get a 375 H&H to go with it.

You do.

Its a rule. Ask anyone.

There is a 300 H&H floating around our family. One of the old Winchesters. It comes out for elk season every year. It still works just fine, ;)

All kidding aside, I like the "Super Thirty" (wow there's a flash back) better than the other "super .30's". It doesn't ring my bell as bad as the 308 Norma, 300 Win Mag and all the other new wonderkin 30s. They all will get your attention and they each have their own pluses and minuses. I think I like it better because I'm in love with the particular rifle.

YMMV - I don't take 900 yard elk shots anymore. I'm to old for that nonsense! The 300 H&H has enough horse power for anything I'm hunting nowdays.
 
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As far as I know; Remington has just the short action and long action
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@rifleman: That's what I thought. Same with the model 70. If true, then that means the .300 H&H actions were standard long actions modified for the longer cartridge, but not actually longer actions than the "standard long". I think that's what tahoe was originally asking. When I think of a magnum action, I think of the bigger ruger african actions or some bigger custom actions like the dakota arms rifles. Maybe we're arguing semantics here?
 
Hammie is right, I am a little confused as to what exactly is a "Magnum" action. I thought the 400/350 and up represented a Magnum action?

checking Chuck Hawk's recoil table; it lists the 300 WM and H&H within a couple of lbs of each other (H&H-23lbs & WM-26lbs) in the same weight rifle with 180 grn bullets @ around 3000fps.
That doesn't seem too bad, as I am currently shooting guns with 20lbs of recoil. With a proper fitting stock, and a good recoil pad, I think it would be no problem.
 
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The Model 70 was introduced to give American shooters a reasonably-priced action that could handle the full-length magnums at a lower price than a magnum Mauser action, which cost several times what a Model 70 sold for. The Model 70 magazine box had to be lengthened to accept the 300 H&H and 375 H&H, and the rear receiver ring notched.

The 300 H&H operates at slightly lower pressures than the 300 Win Mag, with according reductions in recoil, muzzle blast, and velocity.
 
I have hunted with a Remington model 721 in 300 H&H for decades. I reload for it. Generally 180, 200, and 220 grain bullets depending on what I am hunting; usually moose, although I have hunted deer and elk with it in the past. Put the bullet where it should go and that's it.

First deer that I shot with it years ago with my father in law looked like I had shot it with a 12 gauge with buckshot at close range. My father in law was not amused when we were dealing with the bloodshot meat; bone fragments from the ribs and front shoulder went everywhere.

It is NOT a fun range gun. I don't use a lead sled or anything like that when testing new recipes. And have come home with a bruised shoulder on more than one occasion. I am a bigger guy, 6 02 and 240 lbs and have a good recoil pad on it.

Now that I have settled on a load...

So, what do I do... I get a Tikka T3 lite in 30-06 that weighs slightly less than 6 lbs... and start working up loads for it! First thing, got a really good recoil pad for it.

I realize that there are far more "punishing" cartridge/rifle set ups than the Super 30, but this one will let you know that you are firing a rifle.
 
I'm just grinning at Hammie's reference to "Out of Africa", which I just read for the first time a month ago. Pretending is fine, but just don't finish up like Mr. Finch-Hatton, who died in a plane crash.

Back on topic, I would like to have a classic .300 H&H just for the sake of having one...
 
@tom68: Yes Hatton did die in a plane crash, and the plane was a gypsy moth. And, as another bit of trivia, Lawrence of Arabia's motorcycle was a Brough Superior.

I, too, would like a .300 H&H, just as a matter of nostalgia. By the time I started looking for one, the No 1 Bodington's were gone and the only .300 H&H I could find, was a special cabela's one. I didn't feel like paying a premium for a rifle permanently marred with a cabela's medallion.

@AZAK: You're right about recoil. Most of the .300 magnums are not too bad shooting off hand, but at the bench, the recoil gets "noticeable" very quickly. I'm in the market for a .30-'06 and have looked at the Tikka's like yours. Love the smooth action, but they seem too light for the caliber. Sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.
 
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The previous owner had shot Elk and Moose with the 300 H&H Magnum. Said it killed them just as dead as any other gun he used. I was surprised just how well this rifle shot with its favorite load, this is after all, a factory hunting rifle. That is a nine shot group at 100 yards but the muzzle blast caused errors with the chronograph.

Prior to WW2 the 300 H&H was one of the few 30 caliber magnum cartridges on the market and it was used in long range shooting. The advantage in velocity over a 30-06 was there but it was not an overwhelming advantage. Every gunwriter has this cultural memory that Ben Comfort won the Wimbleton in 1937 with a 300 H&H , but since then, the 300 Win Mag has likely won more 1000 yard matches, I think the 30-06 the most. Since good 6.5 mm bullets have been made, the high ballistics of that caliber have displaced everything in 30 caliber except Palma, which you are required to shoot a 308 Win.

I think any cartridge that moves a 190 grain bullet just at 2900 fps is a very powerful round.






 
Looking at .300 and .375 H&H Winchesters and Remingtons, it is hard for me to get a handle on the short magnums.

Is there some mechanical weakness in a model 70, 700, 721, or 725 that makes them marginal with the H&H family? Or the Winchesters rechambered for .300 Weatherby, pre-Mk V?

We're they just looking for something new to sell?
Save the cost of the H&H configuration setup?
Ammo departments wanted something to gen up business from other brands on shorter actions?
 
The 300 H&H was developed using the 375 H&H case necked down. Technically both are "Magnum length" (2.85" case length) but the vast majority of bolt rifles in these calibers are based on "standard length" (2.6") actions. The Remington 700 and Winchester 70 in either caliber will have the same action as used for a 30-06. They just machine away some metal to make it fit.

The "Magnum length" action is physically longer to accommodate the cartridges with 2.85" and longer cases. The 1917 Enfield is a ML action and back in the day they were popular for converting to Magnum calibers. Same with the Remington Model 30 made during the 1930s. The CZ 550 (successor to the old Model 602) in 375 and up is a ML action.

The 300 H&H is not as powerful as the 300 Winchester Magnum. Do you need the extra power? Most of us really do not.

Besides, it's just cool to say "300 H&H."

My 300 H&H isn't a bolt gun so action length is immaterial.


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I had this Remington Model 30 built into a 460. I am currently having a twin made in 300 H&H.


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I've had this BRNO 602 for about 30 years. A true Magnum length Mauser 98 action.


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@Mr. Slamfire, and Mr. S.Pig: Thanks for the clarification. I love the photo of the .300 H&H, Ruger #1. I wish I had one like it.
 
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