300 H&H Magnum (new to me)

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It finally arrived today-my 1957 Winchester Model 70 300 H&H! So far I have $740 into it. I'm going to have it hunter rifle restored since it has already has a recoil pad installed. When I get rich I'm going to have a new Leupold put on it and I'm going in pursuit of a Georgia whitetail. Any thought on my purchase or what I should do about replacing reoil pad and adding a modern scope.
 

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Cool cartridge with a lot of history. If it were mine I'd have the recoil pad done by a pro. The LOP looks a little long as is. At least for me. I'd have to have the stock cut a bit shorter to get the right LOP after the pad is installed. It appears the current pad was installed without cutting the stock. And I'm not good enough to do that job and make it look right.

The spacing of the bases on those rifles are a little longer than standard. A lot of shorter scopes won't work unless you use off set rings. Make sure whatever scope you decide on will work before spending the money.

Are you sure it's enough gun for whitetails?
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Yea, a big whitetail in North GA is 150 lbs. Lots of bucks under 100.

But the 300 H&H is the least potent of the various 300 magnums. Modern 30-06 loads are right on the heels of what you can do with the 300 H&H. It wouldn't be hard at all to convert it to 300 Weatherby mag and really have a fire breather. Then the OP could shoot either 300 H&H or 300 WBY mag ammo out of it.
 
The .30-06 might nip at the heels of a .300 H&H, but it doesn't catch it. You can seriously out pace the 06 with a .300 H&H if you're willing to sacrifice brass life. However, the fact remains the .300 H&H is getting better with bullet and powder advancements just like the 06. It's a much higher performing cartridge today than it was when it was first conceived, and more capable than ever before for for all suitable game worldwide.

As far as the rifle the OP purchased, it's a fine example of a shooter grade Pre-64. First thing I'd do is clean it, put a scope on, and shoot it. See what the potential is for that rifle for hunting as it's a shooter grade. If its accuracy is acceptable and repeatable the next thing I'd do is refinish the stock, and chuck that old recoil pad as far as I could down the road. I'd put a nice grind to fit red recoil pad on it. I'd also toss that set of Weaver aluminum bases, and get a set of Leupold Dual Dovetail bases and rings for the scope you plan to mount permanently on the rifle.

If it didn't shoot, I'd start saving money for a full custom or sell it and get my money back.
 
Yea, a big whitetail in North GA is 150 lbs. Lots of bucks under 100.
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Sounds about right--I've actually hunted in the area of the OP, far more hunters concealed in the brush than there were deer.:D:D
 
I reckon a .308 Winchester is more than adequate for any whitetail deer.
Defiantly do not rechamber such a nice piece of American history.
Sweet rifle!
 
I had a pre '64 model 70 in 300 H&H and got over 20 reloads per case properly full length sizing them. Made a body sizing die that sized all the way to the belt after regular full length sizing.

Ideal twist is 1:12 for heavier bullets, 1:13 for 160 grain and lighter.
 
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But the 300 H&H is the least potent of the various 300 magnums.
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Only in the anemic 180grn factory H&H ammo, and those offerings are pretty slim.

Modern 30-06 loads are right on the heels of what you can do with the 300 H&H.
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Only with the lighter and mid-weight bullets typically used in the “high energy” ‘06 ammo (or “Lite Magnum” ammo, as it was once called).

And “what you can do with the 300H&H” depends on whether you reload for it, like I do. My 300H&H is a Ruger #1, and I’ve handloaded for it extensively.

The 30-06 pretty much tops out velocity-wise with the 180grn bullets. The heavy 200grn & 220grn .308-diameter bullets is where all the 300 Magnums shine, pushing them faster and farther than the ‘06 can, at least safely. Definitely long range punch. If loaded properly, the 300H&H will far outpace the 30-06 with these bullet-weights.

It wouldn't be hard at all to convert it to 300 Weatherby mag and really have a fire breather. Then the OP could shoot either 300 H&H or 300 WBY mag ammo out of it.
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No point in that since the OP can reach into 300WBY territory with his H&H by handloading.
 
SAAMI speed specs for 180 grain 30-06 bullet is 2860 fps. Only 10 fps faster for 300 H & H.

Why is SAAMI'S 30-06 max pressure specs 60,000 psi and only 58,000 psi for 300 H & H?
 
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When introduced by Holland's, it was known as the Super 30 and was not much more than a good stout .30-06. Sharpe shows the cordite load as only a 180 at 2700 fps before WWII.
As with many English rounds, the large case was used to get lower pressures for tropical hunting, not maximum speed. But American handloaders and Winchester soon souped it up to 3000 fps.
 
Yes, I've made some decisions about the ole gun. The weaver scope and mounts must go. The gun will be refinished by an excellent gunsmith with new pachmayer pad instsalled. Talley rings and a vx freedom 3x9 will complete the shooter. Next I will buy some expensive brass and 200 grain gamekings and rl22 powder.
 
. Sharpe shows the cordite load as only a 180 at 2700 fps before WWII.
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To be fair, look at the standard 06 load of the same era. 100-200fps less. Or the same speed (roughly) with a lighter bullet. GI ball was a 150gr at 2700fps (aprox) and commercial ammo speed in those days wasn't significantly higher for the .30-06.

Without handloading to complete maximum possible speeds, the .30s are all about 100-150fps apart in velocity with the same bullets. Generally speaking. A little more, or a little less depending on the specifics of the load, and the rifle used.

And, yes, the long, tapered shape of the H&H rounds (and most other "African" rounds of the era) was exactly for reasons of pressure, and extraction. Where the game is dangerous, the range is short, and the heat is high, the last thing you want is ammo loaded at max levels for European temperate climates in your double rifle.
 
JustJake said:
No point in that since the OP can reach into 300WBY territory with his H&H by handloading
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He could get there, but I wouldn't use the brass again. The gently tapered shoulders of the H&& really likes to stretch brass if pushed hard. The OP would probably stretch the brass ahead of the belt so much it wouldn't survive a second firing. Just because one can doesn't mean they should.
 
taylorce1 said:
He could get there, but I wouldn't use the brass again. The gently tapered shoulders of the H&& really likes to stretch brass if pushed hard. The OP would probably stretch the brass ahead of the belt so much it wouldn't survive a second firing. Just because one can doesn't mean they should.
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Maximum loads in my 300 H & H with new cases ended up with shorter case lengths. Ditto with other belted cases in 30, 28 and 26 caliber.
 
headspacing off the belt, works like a rimmed case. Chambers can vary a bit, and if yours is a touch on the "generous" side, if it gets wider, brass will get shorter in overall length.
 
I say there old chap, when one has scuppered a Rowland Ward sable, one is not concerned with refurbishing the spent cartridge. Perhaps it can be a filip to the mount.
 
He could get there, but I wouldn't use the brass again. The gently tapered shoulders of the H&& really likes to stretch brass if pushed hard. The OP would probably stretch the brass ahead of the belt so much it wouldn't survive a second firing. Just because one can doesn't mean they should.
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With today’s modern hybrid propellants (not available back when the H&H cartridge was introduced), you can get more velocity with less pressure, so the OP’s brass will last longer with less stretching - and hence less trimming. The key is the powder choices.

But again, what really distinguishes all the .300 Magnums from the .30-06 is their ability to push the heavier 200grn-230grn premium bullets faster and farther.

SAAMI speed specs for 180 grain 30-06 bullet is 2860fps. Only 10fps faster for 300 H & H.
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Thanks for making my point. :rolleyes:

Topped with bullet-weights up to 180grns, and loaded with modern propellants, the .30-06 can hang right in there with the magnums, at least in off-the-shelf retail ammo. But ballistically on the heavy end, the ‘06 tops out with 220grn bullets @ or near 2400-2430fps. Properly loaded, the old H&H can do much better than that. Obviously a top-end Weatherby load even more so with the same bullet-weight.

In fact, except for one specific handload that uses a Hornady 125grn SST bullet for long-range coyote-sniping, the only time I reach for my .300H&H Ruger #1 is when I want to send a 200grn or 220grn bullet further than my ‘06 could.

Otherwise, I’ll grab my ‘06 M70 and load it with whatever 180grn ammo it prefers.
 
I wish I still had my Taylor book for exact quotations.
He considered 150 and 220 gr .30s to be entirely different things for different jobs, whether '06 or H&H.

The .318 Accelerated Express (Westley Richards) is not a hot round but made its reputation on its 250 grain bullet. WR tried to sell the trick 180 LT bullet but I don't know how well it caught on.
 
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