30 carbine: dead round?

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When I was in Nam we had all kinds of .30 carbines. One day they took them away and issued the M14. They were given to the ARVN and Cambodians never to be seen again.
It would be interesting to see the weapons that were given up after the war.
 
Really the only thing in its class is the FN PS90, between pistol and rifle power. Always popular amonst slight built people. Today there is expanding ammo not available back in the day. Pretty hard to beat as an under the bed carbine for you or your spouse if you hear glass break in the middle of the night.

Milsurp might be gone but there are millions of rifles out there so there will always be ammo from S&B and others at pistol ammo prices.

Oh and its also a hoot to shoot.
Hmmm.....a .30 Carbine style rifle in 5.7x28......that could be interesting.
A leevra-action .30 carbine sounds like a great yote gun. Just saying!!
I just wonder what it could do better than a .357Mag carbine.....
 
Why do you think almost all PDs have switched from 9mm subguns to 5.56 ARs?

I think a lot of PDs switched to ARs for the same reason they use all the other stuff they got from the Federal government for a reduced price or free.

The militarization of our police has happened, in part, (and in my opinion) more because of low cost or free equipment and training provided by the Federal Government than from a real need for such to fight crime.

Not that the cops don't find the stuff useful, you understand, just that if they had to buy it at full market price, they would still be arguing if it was worth buying...
 
seeker two wrote: I just wonder what it could do better than a .357Mag carbine.....

Run through a semiauto action from a standard full length mag.

Model12Win wrote: A leevra-action .30 carbine sounds like a great yote gun. Just saying!!

Ever heard of a Marlin Model 62 Levermatic?
 
There was indeed a lever 30 carbine marketed years ago. Its sister chamber-ing the 256 Winchester Mag out sold the 30 carbine model. That rifle Marlin 62 kind'a resembled Winchesters Model 88. Like the 88. 62 was also clip-fed.
 
It sits in an odd position ballistics-wise. It is too big for most pistols, but can't compete in trajectory or energy with most intermediate-rifle or battle-rifle rounds.

For users seeking a medium to low powered .30cal cartridge, the .300blk provides better trajectories (bullet shape) and slightly more power. Being designed for the AR platform, it is likely to retain some popularity, where the .30 carbine round is fading, as the M1 Carbine is the primary firearm for it.
 
The main issues lies in the origins of the 30 carbine.

The bullet peformance was specified by the military. Then the weight of the guns was specified. So the bullet came first, the gun came second.

Since the cartridge specifications came close enough to the 32 WSL, it was modified into what became the cartridge we know today by altering the rim, length of brass, weight of bullet, and pressure. They then used the smallest possible frame that would accomodate the bullet to save weight. The shame is that a spitzer wasn't used from the beginning as the extra length would have given more wiggle room to play with the ballistics. Follow on's such as the Marlin 62 would also base their mag.s on the ball ammo that was common.

Factory Soft Points were an improvement in the civilian world but little development of ammo actually happened. One of the few stellar bullets is a handloading only proposition.. the Speer 110 gr. Varminter. If you have ever seen Winchester H.P. ammo; you would laugh at the hollow in the point. It looks like it was made with a pin found in the new long sleeve shirt you bought.
 
"How do you like the Marlin camp 9?"

It's OK-not great but solidly in the OK category. Got mine NIB and had shot it maybe 200 rounds before the buffer crumbled. Replaced that and it's running fine. DIL likes it a lot. She hadn't fired ANY type of firearm until she came into my family so the 9mm is significant in her opinion.
I personally prefer the Ruger PC9.
Either carbine turns the 9mm into a 100 yard defense/repel boarders cartridge.
 
Camp 9.. what Mobuck said.. fun little 100 yard bullet hose.

just don't get Acetone on the trigger group housing...you'll be SOOOOrrrrrryyyyy :eek:
 
Never been a fan of guns that have consumable parts. How can you trust it? Plenty of tried and true designs that don't like the M1 carbine.
 
I'm with kcub. I don't need a rifle that has parts that dissolve at the contact of common solvents. The Government may have the ability to "absorb" such costs, but the average rifleman shouldn't be required to do so.
 
Huh...I can't recall acetone ever getting near any of my firearms.

I was a fan of pistol caliber carbines, and owned several over the years, including the hipoint 9 and the Marlin Camp Carbine. The best I owned was an Uzi semiauto.
However, I sold the Uzi to fund a CMP M1 carbine when they were being sold the last time.
The M1 carbine and it's round offers so much more than any similar sized weapon chambered for a pistol round.
The 30 carbine round is much more powerful, and when loaded with expanding bullets, much more capable. Mine is loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 110gn FTX, and I'm comfortable with that for self defense out to 100yds.
I have owned other more modern rifles in 5.56, 7.62x39, and 5.45. I find the M1 carbine to be lighter, faster handling, and just magical in how it seems to fit me...
While the 30 carbine round is not a fit for current military doctrine, I think it makes one of the best, most under-rated civilian rounds.
It never advanced because the original design and weapon made for it were just about perfect from the beginning, in filling the requirements set out for it.
Really, the entire developement and production of the M1 carbine and it's cartridge is an unparalleled American success story.
 
Yes, I forgot about that old marlin lever gun. Probably because it was the most non-lever gun looking gun ever built. Some foreign lever gun was marketed that resembles it. Was that imported by Sako?
 
Hard to sell modern America on a rifle that costs just about as much as a full-size rifle to produce, but yields 1/2 to 1/3 the oomph for the effort.

Yes, there are definitely many applications (actually most, I would argue) where a lighter-weight, lower power firearm would actually be advantageous over even something as mild as a 223, but you will never, ever, ever be able to market 'less' over 'more' as a product solution. Which is why the instant something larger came along to bridge the gap between pistols and 12lb battle rifles, 30 Carbine was left in the dust.

I do think we are at a unique period where a renewed focus on home/personal defense vs hunting, and increased participation by female shooters, will put emphasis on PDW type firearms, where something like the Carbine as a weapon format could come back into favor. If only because the closed-bolt PCCs they would compete with cost nearly as much but are even weaker. The only reason PCCs have taken off is due to ammo costs falling, so a PDW cartridge that could be similarly cheap & available would likely do quite well (like a 223 cut down to approximate 30 carbine with more available brass, for example, or a 45/308 case loaded to 38 Super length). Rather than straight-wall designs like the Carbine, I expect necked high velocity versions to dominate, to make best use of fragmentary bullets that are more effective for their bore size than simple expansion.

Personally, I think the only way the Carbine could see a resurgence is if we find & import a ton of new rifles & cheap ammo, or if 22 Spitfire finally sees popularity as a defense round.

TCB
 
Captain O and Kcub,
What are you guy's talking about? A marlin camp 9 with plastic trigger guard or an M1 carbine? I don't remember any parts in an M1 carbine that will Melt!!?
Maybe I'm confused here. Please set me straight. What part is Uncle Sam going to have to replace from solvent contact?:confused:
 
Haters be saying the whole rifle, but it gonna be somebody else's rifle, coz they ain't be buyin no lame plastic thing the grubbyment made.

Grubbs. That's a good one. Gonna have to use that one once in a while now.
 
just don't get Acetone on the trigger group housing...you'll be SOOOOrrrrrryyyyy

Now ain't that "the truth a speakin" as it were!

Marlins DON'T like acetone, or break cleaner!! They'll melt!!(!!)

:D!!!(!!!)
 
The 30C was never a top caliber in popularity. I find it fun to shoot and if I were a WW II GI it's the weapon I would want to carry. I have a 1944 Carbine and I enjoy it. I also have a Ruger BH in 30C and it's a hoot.

BTW- Don't know about everyone else but I have a Chiappa M1 carbine clone in 22 Long Rifle. I've shot it several times and it has failed to eject 2 or 3 times out of maybe 300 rounds fired. Might get better as the gun breaks in or with different ammo. As is not so bad IMO. Accuracy was pretty good.
 
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