.30-06 Long Range Rifle

M

Mosin-Marauder

New member
So, if what the great Mr. Whelen said is true..

"The .30-06 is never a mistake."
Click to expand...

...then a .30-06 bolt gun for F-Class/Bench Rest/Other long range competitions wouldn't be a mistake...

I already have a potential action, it's a Winchester Model 70 "Ranger" which is the exact same as any other push feed winchester made in the 80s-90s, so I don't see how the action would put me at a disadvantage. Obviously I'd need a stock and a barrel (and a scope!)

The ranges would be from 100 to 600 most likely, I don't see myself shooting past 600 regularly.

Now, I know what you're thinking:

"Why?"

For the kicks. I just want to do this. I don't expect to win the world bench rest championship or something. I just want to have fun with this caliber. :)

So, I'm posting a preliminary thread tonight just to get some thoughts and opinions on what to do/how to do it/if I should do it et cetera(:p).

For barrels, I am thinking Krieger but I'm not sure about twist (1-10 is my initial choice) , I haven't done much research into stocks, the same is true for scopes, although it would have to be quite high power wise, with some manner of drop/wind compensation. And I'd like to keep the whole build under $1000, but that may be way too low.

If I decide to go through with it, I will be posting different threads on each "stage" of the "build".

Thanks for any insight/help you can provide!

-Mo.
 
Years ago I shot 1000 yard informal matches with a 30-06. A good barrel and hot hand loads are mandatory IMO. 500-600 yards is a walk in the park. That's not the scope I used back then.

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Townsend Whelen has been dead for 55 years. A lot has changed. While the 30-06 may not be a bad choice, it is no longer the best.

The action you have can be used to make a very accurate rifle. But I'd do some more research before I committed to 30-06. I'm a 30-06 fan, it's claim to fame is it's ability to do a lot of things well and is a great choice for the guy who wants to be able to use only one rifle. But when asked to perform one specific task, there are options that are better.
 
I sort of figured from the get-go that it wouldn't be an optimal choice. I just want something in .30-cal, that's really the only hard requirement I suppose. I've grown to like the .30-06 quite a bit since I've had my winchester and I just chose it as a first choice. I'm open to any suggestions on caliber, of course.
 
The 30-06 is still a superb choice for a range rifle, don't let anyone talk you out of it.

You will also enjoy the lowest lifetime ammo expense with it, compared to any other choice, except 308. If you're rich and don't care, that's one thing, but I doubt it.
 
Well the 3-06 may not be the best for playing the game of paper shooting, but as an all around shell you will not find anything better.
USMC and US Army Snipers have proven from WW1 to Vietnam it is just fine for the use a real rifle is supposed to be used for. Same can be said for hunting game all over North America and the world.

Paper is for training and and improving yourself, and if you like, it is for competition, but if you want something to kill game with that covers the bases super well, the old 06 is still the best all around cartridge ever made in my opinion.
I am a die-hard 270 fan and for long range hunting I like it best, but I cannot say it will cover as broad a spectrum of game hunting, fighting, target shooting all in one rifle as well as the 30-06. Killing animals from 70 pounds to 1200 pounds all with one rifle....that is the 30-06.

Sure there are other shells that can do it too, but none will do it any better without trading off some of the advantages of the 30-06.

When looking at the selection of bullets from 130 to 220, ease of recoil, shorter barrel, moderate weight, barrel life, accuracy, magazine capacity, overall weight of the rifle and so on, you will fine many cartridges that will beat the 06 in a few areas, but NONE that give you such good coverage of all the areas at one time.

For a general purpose rifle, I doubt there has ever been a cartridge made in all history that truly is better, and few as good.

If you want a specialty rifle for a special purpose there are many other options that may give you an edge.

If you want something that covers the most ground with the least "down sides" the 30-06 is still the king of cartridges.
 
.30-06, Krieger or Shilen, McMillan stock.
Do some research on the trigger.
Work up a good load.
Go to it.
Denis

(By the way- chicks dig a .30-06 man.)
Denis
 
That action will also take damn near anything, and most good LR rounds have the same size bolt face, so you have a lot of options.

If it was me, I would look at the .260 Remington. The long action eliminates the OAL problems you get with heavy bullets in the short action, you get most of the performance of the 6.5-06 with a longer barrel life.
 
MM,
You have come a long way.
In this thing we do,of thinking up a rifle,a formula,of what we want to do,try,build,the point,I think,is to learn some more,and grow better dreams.Then do it.
I'm sure Stradivarius was always thinking of how to make a better violin.

There will always be others who have a little different idea.Others who,if they were building a rifle,would build it a different way.IMO,they really should actually build their own rifle their way,and respect the vision that you have for your rifle.
You are far ahead of what 95% of shooters would build.
You are starting with an M-70 receiver.A really good case can be made that the square bottom M-70 receiver resists the torque of accelerating the bullet from zero to about 175,000 rpm better than the round receivers made from tubing . Good choice.

If I were building the rifle you describe,I would have great confidence that a Kreiger barrel was as good of a choice as I could make.
Yes,there ARE other superb barrels. Maybe Lilja or Bartlein or Obermeyer,etc.
But YOUR plan,MM,said a Kreiger.(That would be my first choice)
Believe in yourself.
If you look on Kreiger's web page,a M-70 might even be on the list of receivers they are willing to thread and chamber.

On choosing the 30-06...I respect and agree with your choice.I recall a long argument I had over wanting MY rifle to be a .375 H+H. Someone would not let go of the argument the .338 Win was "better". Maybe for him,it was.It just does not matter.For ME,for my own reasons,that require NO JUSTIFICATION to ANYBODY, I wanted a .375 H+H.

Now,it might be that if Bart B was still visiting,he might tell you the .308 had a statistical advantage.
And some years back,the Army Marksmanship Unit chose 30-338 for a 1000 yd rifle. And who knows what David Tubbs is working with today.Maybe a 6.5 Creedmore. Maybe...if the stakes were a World Championship or higher level competition,it would make some good sense to look at what the winners of those competitions were using,and why.
In some cases,recoil and shooter fatigue are a factor.Some consider barrel life.(The 06 should be good here) In some cartridges,the component makers have put more into "match grade". Some folks are shooting heavy 5.56 bullets at 1000 yds,some 6mm.
But I'm assuming this is MM saying "If I were to build a good 600 yd rifle,it would be this" No one can do that better than you.

All of those Stradivaius's have their own visions.They did it their way.

As Jeff Cooper's daughter wrote"There's not many things that can't be fixed,with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

You take that rifle as far as it will go.

Learn all you can. Then start dreaming of the next violin.

It might be a 1000 yd F-Class,or a Coyote rifle,or a Black Powder Silhouette rifle.
I'm sure you will build a good one.

Its kind of like most gun store clerks.YOU save your money,YOU do your research,YOU make your choice,then go to the gun store.
And sure as heck there will be a retail clerk who thinks he knows better what YOU should buy for YOU.

Stock? The McMillan is a great choice.Top grade.Matches a Kreiger barrel.
Not cheap,either..ifwe consider your $1000 budget.

I own a Winchester M-70 Classic Laredo. Its a lot like a Win version of a Sendero.If I'm not mistaken,the Sendero used an H-S Precision Stock.My Laredo came from Win with an H-S Precison stock.
They are fully finished,drop in,strong and stable.They come with an aluminum bedding block.Last time I priced one for a M-70 long action,it was about 275..maybe hanging at Sportsman's Warehouse.I think it would be a good,sound,economical choice.
Muddying the water a bit is a political matter about HS precision..It goes back to a published endorsement by the Federal agent who did the shooting at Ruby Ridge.Before you were born.
If you want to know about it,PM me.
Today?? I would probably buy an H-SPrecision stock,but I might examine the website first.If they were still proud of Mr Horiuchi's endorsement...I dunno.

A step down,but still useable is the Bell and Carlson Carbelite.
I saw one new old stock with the drop belly mag feature for a P-14 "enfield"(I know its not really an enfield.) action I have.I think I paid $100.

Glass? Once again,the budgdt!! Easy to exceed$1000 on the scope.I have not used one,but by reputation,the 10 X SWFA Super Sniper is decent,has target knobs,and they get used in competition.Probably still under $300.I've heard,don't know,that if you go up in power,like to 20x or 30x,the glass quality becomes an issue.Apparently at 10 X everybody is happy.
Vortec is being chosen and used by many.You might research them and ask questions.
 
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Even though the 30/06 has been relegated to mostly a hunting round, it does have the potential to do well at long range. The .308 claims to have better potential due to reduced action flex but the diff is minuscule in many cases.
I have a 30/06 target rifle that is only limited by the optic and operator. It was pretty much top of the heap in the late 60's but I seldom shoot it anymore. Weight is around 12# and it currently has a 16X scope. 1/4 mile is really no challenge even with ho hum ammo. I have most of a case of $5 a box ammo(1980's cost) that will keep 90% of hits in 4" @ 400 yards.
 
I started in F class with an elderly M70 Target .30-06 because that was what I owned that would reach 1000 yards.
But I would certainly not buy or build one for the purpose.
Why?
Because .30-06 would put you in F Open versus all manner of flatter shooting, lighter recoiling 6, 6.5, and 7mm rifles.

If you want a .30 Something, make it a .308 that you can shoot in F-T/R for a more level playing field.

I disagree with Wyosmith. The "all purpose rifle" is a wild goose chase. I don't know any serious target shooters on the line with any reasonably portable hunting rifle and I am sure not humping a target rifle in the woods.

I disagree with HiBC. Target shooting has rules and it has an experience base. Kewl factor does not put points on the scorecard.
 
Krieger has different levels on action work and they start @ $150. and this is from one gunsmith here in Co on cost.

http://www.gretanrifles.com/services/viewEntry.jsf

If you don't have bolt sleeved it's $175 less.

I've got 2 30-06 one has Bartlein @ 26",1/11.25 5r twist barrel on Win action other has Shilen @ 25",1/13 Ratchet twist 4 groove barrel on Rem action. Both are hunting rifles and and these barrels did replace Kreiger on Win and Lilja on Rem action. I didn't have any action work and paid around $250 when I did replace barrel first time on each action and both have McMillan stocks.

Kreiger makes good barrel and I like to spread barrels around and I do have Kreiger on 280AI,243. I put Lilja on other 280AI and Hart on 243AI both have 27" barrel.

I don't own 308 so can't comment other than if I want one I'd of build one.

You have to build for yourself and there is lot of options. I always give gunsmith some dummy rds on bullets I want to use so I didn't build those 30-06's to shoot every 30 ca bullet made. I long throated the Rem 30-06 so it's not Saami Spec.

Well good liuck
 
Jim Watson,I do not disagree with you!
We may be giving answers to two different questions.
If MM is building a rifle to shoot in competition,then YES!! Study the rules,study what the winners do,and why.Learn all you can about what wins,and what is the most advantage in the class you want to shoot.If there are matches,attend a few.Ask questions. Build the rifle for the game,to game spec.And,when I re-read MM's post,he DID mention F-class,bench rest,etc COMPETITION. I overlooked that,and may have gone sideways.

MM said something about only having access to 600yds at most. Agreed,I may have it wrong...but unless he intends to compete,where finding all the advantage/limitations in the rulebook is important..then I'll stand by,build your vision of your rifle your way.
 
Nothing wrong with the '06 (heck I have 7 of them) for long range, though most people consider 600 yards mid range.

I have shot some darn respectable 1000 yard scores with a '03 both with my M1s and some super good scores with my Vietnam Era Sniper Model 70 Sniper Rifle Clone I built.

However the most accurate '06 I have is my pre-64 (1949) Model 70.

If I was going to go with a target '06 it would defiantly be a Model 70. Granted most of my '06s are USGI surplus Military rifles I shoot in CMP Vintage GSM games but my Model 70s are a tad more accurate.

Heck in stead of asking, just take your Model 70 '06 to a match and see how it works. I bet you wont be disappointed.
 
Heck in stead of asking, just take your Model 70 '06 to a match and see how it works. I bet you wont be disappointed.

^
^
This is the best advice written so far on this thread.
 
Already took it to a match in sporter config, I finished 3rd in the marksman class with a score of 145 and won $15. Groups were good until the barrel reached like 200 degrees. I feel with a heavier barrel It would do very well. I'm in the process of making some loads to compete in the next one, and I have a feeling I'll do even better, as I didn't use "match" ammo at the last match.
 
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