3 NEW polymer striker fired 9mms
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IMightBeWrong
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I've only been able to see the APX in person. It's nice, but I won't be buying one. It's got that protruding pin safety in the top of the slide blocking the possibility of an RMR cutout and the modular trigger control group has some unnecessary complications that I don't care for.
I am looking forward to seeing the 509 and forming an opinion. It's also got the modular chassis system going for it.
The P10c doesn't have a modular setup if that matters to you. It's basically a fully ambi Glock made by CZ with a trigger that is being reported as even nicer than a PPQ, but I won't be able to confirm that until I can get hands on one. I find it the ugliest of the bunch, looks like something that should have hit the market in the 80's or 90's to me. It's probably a great gun that will be worth looking at for anyone considering buying a Glock.
I am looking forward to seeing the 509 and forming an opinion. It's also got the modular chassis system going for it.
The P10c doesn't have a modular setup if that matters to you. It's basically a fully ambi Glock made by CZ with a trigger that is being reported as even nicer than a PPQ, but I won't be able to confirm that until I can get hands on one. I find it the ugliest of the bunch, looks like something that should have hit the market in the 80's or 90's to me. It's probably a great gun that will be worth looking at for anyone considering buying a Glock.
I've owned an APX for a few weeks now. I only have a few hundred rounds through it but it's been completely reliable. For me the grip shape is the most comfortable of any pistol I've owned, including a P99 and a P30. It also fits a wide range of hand sizes. The grip texture is excellent and I wish I had it on most of my pistols. The trigger is quite good too. I picked mine up for $450 and it's exceeded my expectations so far. As for the modular unit I have watched the video and it is trickier to take out than my P320. That said I almost never take out the FCU of my P320 so frankly I'm not too worried.
The only complaints I've read on the P10-c is a number of folks find the grip texture on the sides to be too aggressive and it seems to require a lot more effort than typical to get the magazine catch to drop the magazine. I'm really interested in the 509 but I'm also a bit confused by it in that I haven't seen a single person yet demonstrate the modularity. I assume that as it's based on FN's entry in the MHS competition it would be, but I see no mention of modularity for it on FN's website.
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The only complaints I've read on the P10-c is a number of folks find the grip texture on the sides to be too aggressive and it seems to require a lot more effort than typical to get the magazine catch to drop the magazine. I'm really interested in the 509 but I'm also a bit confused by it in that I haven't seen a single person yet demonstrate the modularity. I assume that as it's based on FN's entry in the MHS competition it would be, but I see no mention of modularity for it on FN's website.
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IMightBeWrong
New member
I just did a swing by to my LGS and they finally had a 509 to look at. I like it! Really dig the grip texture. Didn't feel that heavy to me. I am not sure how the removal of the trigger group works but it looks simpler than the APX from the outside. Inside, I dunno. But no silly pin safety on the slide so it could be cut for an RMR. The trigger on the 509 feels like a gritty M&P shield trigger to me. It's not terrible, but not impressive. I have heard that they break in nice and smooth at least.
As to the APX ergonomics, I didn't feel that the grip contoured to my hand in any special way but I did notice that Beretta did a great job on making the grip thin compared to other guns. I have medium sized hands. I actually prefer the ergonomics of the PPQ, P30, and even P320 and now 509 as well to the APX, but I must admit the slim factor of the APX has them beat. Ergonomics are a pretty personal thing, though. Also, I'm by no means saying that I don't like the APX. I actually DO like the pistol. I almost threw down my credit card to take one home, really like the trigger on it. Those nit picks just stopped me. If Beretta feels like changing the design of their firing pin safety and releasing an RMR cut version and gets rid of that little button that deactivates the trigger group then I'll buy one.
As for the complications question, my remark only applied to the APX which has a tiny button to deactivate the trigger for disassembly (I have always hated features like this, I didn't even like the bar inside the M&P even though I don't actually have to use it) and a spring/bar piece that needs to be moved with a small tool before the trigger group can be removed. Compared to just pulling out a takedown lever, much more annoying. This is admittedly pretty nitpicky, but if a gun is being sold with "modularity" as a feature then it should be well thought out and simple to work with in my personal opinion.
Now I just need hands on with the P10 to form an opinion! The above comment about the texture on the P10 doesn't concern me. First off, had anyone felt the grip on the M&P 2.0 yet? Holy moly! But I would rather have an aggressive grip out of the box and sand it down a bit than have a weak grip that needs a decal or stipple job to fix.
As to the APX ergonomics, I didn't feel that the grip contoured to my hand in any special way but I did notice that Beretta did a great job on making the grip thin compared to other guns. I have medium sized hands. I actually prefer the ergonomics of the PPQ, P30, and even P320 and now 509 as well to the APX, but I must admit the slim factor of the APX has them beat. Ergonomics are a pretty personal thing, though. Also, I'm by no means saying that I don't like the APX. I actually DO like the pistol. I almost threw down my credit card to take one home, really like the trigger on it. Those nit picks just stopped me. If Beretta feels like changing the design of their firing pin safety and releasing an RMR cut version and gets rid of that little button that deactivates the trigger group then I'll buy one.
As for the complications question, my remark only applied to the APX which has a tiny button to deactivate the trigger for disassembly (I have always hated features like this, I didn't even like the bar inside the M&P even though I don't actually have to use it) and a spring/bar piece that needs to be moved with a small tool before the trigger group can be removed. Compared to just pulling out a takedown lever, much more annoying. This is admittedly pretty nitpicky, but if a gun is being sold with "modularity" as a feature then it should be well thought out and simple to work with in my personal opinion.
Now I just need hands on with the P10 to form an opinion! The above comment about the texture on the P10 doesn't concern me. First off, had anyone felt the grip on the M&P 2.0 yet? Holy moly! But I would rather have an aggressive grip out of the box and sand it down a bit than have a weak grip that needs a decal or stipple job to fix.
I still want to see someone actually go over the modularity of the 509. It remains weird to me that FN doesn't even seem to mention it. I'm wondering if because it's not the MHS entry exactly if for some reason it might not be modular.
The P320 feels like a broom handle to me for ergos. I don't mind it but it's definitely chunkier than I'd like, but I have stubby fingers.
The button on the APX doesn't to me add much complexity. It simply releases the striker. It takes too much force to be done by accident, IMO. While it is more complicated to take down than the P320 to me the tradeoff is the much lower bore axis than the P320. The FCU on the APX is seated much deeper in the frame than the P320.
As for the aggressiveness, if you like it fair enough. I'm just letting the OP know what I heard. I've heard it's moreso than the M&P. People that typically don't care seem to notice.
The P320 feels like a broom handle to me for ergos. I don't mind it but it's definitely chunkier than I'd like, but I have stubby fingers.
The button on the APX doesn't to me add much complexity. It simply releases the striker. It takes too much force to be done by accident, IMO. While it is more complicated to take down than the P320 to me the tradeoff is the much lower bore axis than the P320. The FCU on the APX is seated much deeper in the frame than the P320.
As for the aggressiveness, if you like it fair enough. I'm just letting the OP know what I heard. I've heard it's moreso than the M&P. People that typically don't care seem to notice.
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CalmerThanYou
New member
You left out the HK VP-9 Which I am so happy with it makes me want to spread the word.
VoodooMountain
New member
I thought I had my mind made up to wait for the mp 2.0 compact but no mention of it has come from S&W so my attention has been turned to the new cz and fn offerings.
I think either one would be great but the fact a guy can use glock holsters with the cz is a real plus. I'm sure I'll end up with a 2.0 and an fn. Just a hunch
I think either one would be great but the fact a guy can use glock holsters with the cz is a real plus. I'm sure I'll end up with a 2.0 and an fn. Just a hunch
IMightBeWrong
New member
At the moment, already owning a P320 and happy with my choice, the one I can most easily see myself picking up next is the 509. CZ is the wild card because I haven't found one to look at yet.
Pukindog12
New member
I'd really like to try to try a P-10c to see if the ergos are as good as my P-07 gen 2. But of the three the one I am anticipating the most is the FN 509. Reviews have stated the 509 is very similar to the FNS 9. If true I will hopefully acquire one for I find the FNS 9 to be a superb pistol.
IMightBeWrong
New member
My local shop that had the 509 just got a P10c in as well. Took a look. No contest, I like the P10c more than the APX or the 509. Not a modular setup but the trigger is excellent, the grip feels great, and everything just feels like it's put together the right way. The parts are beefy as hell, too. It really seems like they designed it to be a duty gun made to serve as long as possible.
armoredman
New member
I just picked up my P10C today, no rounds down range yet, but it does have a solid feel, and I didn't really see the magazine drop issue. That front and back strap checkering is very "aggressive", but like you say, sandpaper is your friend. 
First ever poly striker fired pistol I've owned...and there was a VERY popular striker fired gun I had a couple of decades back when Glock was just rolling out. Came from this little area of the world we called the Ring of Fire...
Yeah, Jennings.
And Raven. 
First ever poly striker fired pistol I've owned...and there was a VERY popular striker fired gun I had a couple of decades back when Glock was just rolling out. Came from this little area of the world we called the Ring of Fire...Yeah, Jennings.
And Raven. IMightBeWrong
New member
I'm strongly considering getting the P10c at my local shop before somebody else swipes it. I'm really impressed, and I was expecting to like the 509 more. Not the case.
marine6680
New member
I am a fan of CZ... but I have not managed to find one of the new pistols yet. Heck, the other day was the first time I got hands on with the 805 Bren... (I want one very much...)
So I am looking forward to checking one out when I can. If the trigger is a nice as claimed, unless it is just horribly unergonomic, I will be a fan.
I also feel Beretta makes a good pistol as well. (well good firearms in general... as their shotguns are great, and the ARX, while a little awkward in the hand to me, is a good rifle)
The APX, while a little odd looking, seems to be functional. Those slide serrations look very effective... So it looks odd with a purpose.
But people are claiming some complications and difficulties with disassembly. Which is unfortunate... But those can be trained and learned away... If the gun proves reliable and accurate.
So for the CZ and Beretta, I can only give my second hand impressions for now.
Now I have managed to lay hands on a 509...
I really like the ergonomics of the pistol. I own a FNS, and while I have no issues with it, my fiance feels it is way to aggressive in the texturing, and she isn't a big fan of the ergos, but its more the texturing.
The 509, definity feels better in the hand, its very comfortable to hold, and the texture feels like it keeps the gun planted in your hand. The fiance really liked it as well.
The trigger is like an improved FNS, which I found to be a decent trigger before. The 509 trigger is just a bit more refined, but not drastically so. I like the pull better than a Glock trigger, but I wish it was a little lighter overall. So its a bit of a wash when compared to a Glock trigger. Better feel, but heavier, vs the Glock's lighter but spongier feel.
The 509 trigger is a little spongy though, but not detrimentally so. I can shoot a Glock just fine with its spongy trigger, so I don't see the 509 trigger as a hinderance.
The biggest issue with the 509 is price. I can find the APX listed at under $500, at $450-475, and the CZ is likely similar in low price...
The 509 is going for $600 local, but $550 other places online. If the price was inline with the APX, it would be a very good buy. As it stands now, its still not a horrible price, given the price of a gen 4 Glock.
I don't think I need to upgrade my FNS to a 509, but it seems like a good pistol.
So I am looking forward to checking one out when I can. If the trigger is a nice as claimed, unless it is just horribly unergonomic, I will be a fan.
I also feel Beretta makes a good pistol as well. (well good firearms in general... as their shotguns are great, and the ARX, while a little awkward in the hand to me, is a good rifle)
The APX, while a little odd looking, seems to be functional. Those slide serrations look very effective... So it looks odd with a purpose.
But people are claiming some complications and difficulties with disassembly. Which is unfortunate... But those can be trained and learned away... If the gun proves reliable and accurate.
So for the CZ and Beretta, I can only give my second hand impressions for now.
Now I have managed to lay hands on a 509...
I really like the ergonomics of the pistol. I own a FNS, and while I have no issues with it, my fiance feels it is way to aggressive in the texturing, and she isn't a big fan of the ergos, but its more the texturing.
The 509, definity feels better in the hand, its very comfortable to hold, and the texture feels like it keeps the gun planted in your hand. The fiance really liked it as well.
The trigger is like an improved FNS, which I found to be a decent trigger before. The 509 trigger is just a bit more refined, but not drastically so. I like the pull better than a Glock trigger, but I wish it was a little lighter overall. So its a bit of a wash when compared to a Glock trigger. Better feel, but heavier, vs the Glock's lighter but spongier feel.
The 509 trigger is a little spongy though, but not detrimentally so. I can shoot a Glock just fine with its spongy trigger, so I don't see the 509 trigger as a hinderance.
The biggest issue with the 509 is price. I can find the APX listed at under $500, at $450-475, and the CZ is likely similar in low price...
The 509 is going for $600 local, but $550 other places online. If the price was inline with the APX, it would be a very good buy. As it stands now, its still not a horrible price, given the price of a gen 4 Glock.
I don't think I need to upgrade my FNS to a 509, but it seems like a good pistol.
IMightBeWrong
New member
I slept on whether or not to go back for the P10c. I'm glad I did, I get neurotic over buying guns so I need to keep myself in check. I really like the P10c, but I think if I want to buy a CZ I'm going to find a P-01 Omega. The trigger on the P10c is great and it's got a nice grip, but it isn't something truly special IMO. At least not in a market that's filling with modular handguns that you can cheaply buy different colored frames for and other striker fired guns like the PPQ that look better and have an even crisper trigger. The P10c is a steal for $499 or below, though, so if I didn't already have a quality striker fired pistol in my possession it would be much more tempting.
marine6680
New member
I don't think the 509 is modular... Not all of the MHS were "modular" in the same sense as the 320.
Probably why they were rejected.
The 320, felt comfortable enough for me if not a bit roundish, but putting on a small grip made a big difference. If should send out demo setups of the different grip sizes like SW does with the MP, that would help people choose.
Probably why they were rejected.
The 320, felt comfortable enough for me if not a bit roundish, but putting on a small grip made a big difference. If should send out demo setups of the different grip sizes like SW does with the MP, that would help people choose.
IMightBeWrong
New member
I felt the different sizes at a SIG Sauer store in Chandler, AZ. I didn't buy same day, but I was there and they had nothing but SIG stock there wit all the frames and colors for the 320. I liked the medium, which is the easiest to find pre-installed. Medium is usually my size. Medium gloves (except for medical nitrile gloves which I'm a Large), medium pistols, my hands are pretty "standard" I guess.
I think I made the right choice FOR ME with the P320 Compact. I still like it more than these newer guns, but based on my above posts I'm sure you can all see that I have a tendency to dislike minor things. I love that while the 320 has modularity, it's also very simple. I never liked that guns with replaceable back straps relied on a pin for their structural integrity, something I viewed as a possible failure point. 320 addressed that. I never really liked trigger safeties. 320 addressed that. And it appears to be the easiest to frame swap, and I kinda want an OD and FDE frame for days when I feel like changing things up. This is just my preferences though.
Just for the heck of it, I'll go over my impressions of these newer guns one by one since I just looked at them all side by side last night.
Beretta APX: Best grip shape of the 3 in my hand, very slim. Good trigger. Second best trigger of the 3. Good grip texture, not too aggressive or too slick. Nice low bore axis for those who look for that (I don't take much stock in this because I'm not a pro shooter and have never found it to change my shooting or recoil control). It's weaknesses in my mind are as listed above. I don't like the added disassembly complications and I wish the striker safety didn't protrude out the top of the gun so that RMR cuts could be simpler. I will also note that the slide serrations were not as aggressive as the media made them sound. They work, but the slide finish is a bit slick (not as slick as the older Gen 3 Glock finish but similar) which made them feel pretty tame. I don't think they'll shred any kydex.
CZ P10c: Best trigger of the bunch. Most aggressive grip, but not too aggressive. Very low bore axis also. Has what I consider to be a perfect sight picture, just the right amount of air between the sights, however they are that silly glow in the dark type. The trigger is not as crisp as a PPQ in my opinion, in spite of what many YouTubers claim. It's in the same ball park as the VP9 for trigger, although I do prefer the P10c trigger to a VP9 trigger personally. The grip angle is similar to a Glock or a 1911 with a round mainspring housing, but the gun does not have a grip jump so it feels nicer than a Glock to me. The Mag release button is indeed stiff. The stiffest I have ever felt on a pistol, actually. Pressing it for the first time, it wasn't moving and felt like it was jammed in a stuck position until I added enough thumb pressure that it budged just a tiny bit and the mag popped right out. It's an odd Mag release, but it's not bad. It would be easy to get used to and I think it's a good design since I am often concerned with ambi Mag buttons that I could bump the outside button and accidentally drop the Mag while carrying. I think the different design of this release will help negate this possibility, although I personally still prefer a single, swappable button so that the possibility isn't even there. That's just me.
FN 509: This one was the one I actually expected to like the most, but it is not. It's a nice pistol, but I like the other 2 more. It is indeed modular! The trigger group is the serialized part. I haven't taken one apart, but my go to guy at the shop I frequent field stripped it with me. It looks like there's a roll pin in the rear that needs to come out to change frames, so still not the easiest to swap, but not bad. The trigger is average. It feels like an M&P "1.5" trigger. It's not as nice as the 2.0 but more tactile than the original M&P. It's pretty gritty when new. Will probably smooth out nicely, but I don't think many will be raving about the trigger. The grip feels good, nicely textured, not as aggressive as the P10c and ever so slightly more aggressive feeling than the APX. I didn't take that close a look comparing bore axis of these guns but the 509 felt like it sat just a bit higher than the other 2.
If anyone is curious how I rank them, just go in order of how I listed them in this post. In spite of my complaints on tiny aspects of the APX, it is actually my favorite of these 3 new guns. I like the grip, I like the trigger, I like that it's modular. If Beretta ever releases one that addresses my RMR concern, I may just go ahead and get one and overlook my other nitpicks. I don't actually own any guns with RMRs on them or plan to carry with one, but I don't like the idea of not being able to have the option in the future (or if being stuck with a proprietary Beretta one if that's their plan).
Edit: Just to clarify my flip flop on claiming I liked the P10c the most last night, I did when I first held it. After going over pros and cons in my head, I decided that I don't see much point in the P10c over other guns. If I want a CZ, I may as well get a more classic one. Newer modular guns seemed to be a gimmick to me at first, but I think in the future I'll be trying to stick with them. The most common major failure on a polymer gun seems to be frame cracks so if I ever have a problem it's nice to know I don't have to send the whole gun in for warranty service and pay a transfer fee to get it back from an FFL when I can just buy a frame and change it. Plus there's no more need to buy 2 guns just because I can't decide what color I like. The P10c doesn't have this advantage. The P320 and APX both do.
I think I made the right choice FOR ME with the P320 Compact. I still like it more than these newer guns, but based on my above posts I'm sure you can all see that I have a tendency to dislike minor things. I love that while the 320 has modularity, it's also very simple. I never liked that guns with replaceable back straps relied on a pin for their structural integrity, something I viewed as a possible failure point. 320 addressed that. I never really liked trigger safeties. 320 addressed that. And it appears to be the easiest to frame swap, and I kinda want an OD and FDE frame for days when I feel like changing things up. This is just my preferences though.
Just for the heck of it, I'll go over my impressions of these newer guns one by one since I just looked at them all side by side last night.
Beretta APX: Best grip shape of the 3 in my hand, very slim. Good trigger. Second best trigger of the 3. Good grip texture, not too aggressive or too slick. Nice low bore axis for those who look for that (I don't take much stock in this because I'm not a pro shooter and have never found it to change my shooting or recoil control). It's weaknesses in my mind are as listed above. I don't like the added disassembly complications and I wish the striker safety didn't protrude out the top of the gun so that RMR cuts could be simpler. I will also note that the slide serrations were not as aggressive as the media made them sound. They work, but the slide finish is a bit slick (not as slick as the older Gen 3 Glock finish but similar) which made them feel pretty tame. I don't think they'll shred any kydex.
CZ P10c: Best trigger of the bunch. Most aggressive grip, but not too aggressive. Very low bore axis also. Has what I consider to be a perfect sight picture, just the right amount of air between the sights, however they are that silly glow in the dark type. The trigger is not as crisp as a PPQ in my opinion, in spite of what many YouTubers claim. It's in the same ball park as the VP9 for trigger, although I do prefer the P10c trigger to a VP9 trigger personally. The grip angle is similar to a Glock or a 1911 with a round mainspring housing, but the gun does not have a grip jump so it feels nicer than a Glock to me. The Mag release button is indeed stiff. The stiffest I have ever felt on a pistol, actually. Pressing it for the first time, it wasn't moving and felt like it was jammed in a stuck position until I added enough thumb pressure that it budged just a tiny bit and the mag popped right out. It's an odd Mag release, but it's not bad. It would be easy to get used to and I think it's a good design since I am often concerned with ambi Mag buttons that I could bump the outside button and accidentally drop the Mag while carrying. I think the different design of this release will help negate this possibility, although I personally still prefer a single, swappable button so that the possibility isn't even there. That's just me.
FN 509: This one was the one I actually expected to like the most, but it is not. It's a nice pistol, but I like the other 2 more. It is indeed modular! The trigger group is the serialized part. I haven't taken one apart, but my go to guy at the shop I frequent field stripped it with me. It looks like there's a roll pin in the rear that needs to come out to change frames, so still not the easiest to swap, but not bad. The trigger is average. It feels like an M&P "1.5" trigger. It's not as nice as the 2.0 but more tactile than the original M&P. It's pretty gritty when new. Will probably smooth out nicely, but I don't think many will be raving about the trigger. The grip feels good, nicely textured, not as aggressive as the P10c and ever so slightly more aggressive feeling than the APX. I didn't take that close a look comparing bore axis of these guns but the 509 felt like it sat just a bit higher than the other 2.
If anyone is curious how I rank them, just go in order of how I listed them in this post. In spite of my complaints on tiny aspects of the APX, it is actually my favorite of these 3 new guns. I like the grip, I like the trigger, I like that it's modular. If Beretta ever releases one that addresses my RMR concern, I may just go ahead and get one and overlook my other nitpicks. I don't actually own any guns with RMRs on them or plan to carry with one, but I don't like the idea of not being able to have the option in the future (or if being stuck with a proprietary Beretta one if that's their plan).
Edit: Just to clarify my flip flop on claiming I liked the P10c the most last night, I did when I first held it. After going over pros and cons in my head, I decided that I don't see much point in the P10c over other guns. If I want a CZ, I may as well get a more classic one. Newer modular guns seemed to be a gimmick to me at first, but I think in the future I'll be trying to stick with them. The most common major failure on a polymer gun seems to be frame cracks so if I ever have a problem it's nice to know I don't have to send the whole gun in for warranty service and pay a transfer fee to get it back from an FFL when I can just buy a frame and change it. Plus there's no more need to buy 2 guns just because I can't decide what color I like. The P10c doesn't have this advantage. The P320 and APX both do.
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This is one area where I agree and don't agree with you. I can absolutely become accustomed to the P320 when I shoot it and in the process I do not find the bore axis problematic. What I have noticed is that when I do days where I take both my P320 and my Glock and then shoot them one after the other I do notice the difference. I can shoot the Glock slightly better at speed (faster time for maintaining the same group size). But if you asked me to turn in a 5 shot group slow fire I probably could do better with the P320.
I liken it to comparing 1080P and 4K TVs just in terms of resolution. In watching my 1080P TV by itself I am not disappointed in the picture quality. But I watch the same production in 4K and go back and forth I will notice a difference.
I don't think the APX is perfect. I, like you, don't like the protrusion attached to the striker block. To me it's only a potential problem. I also don't like that when the barrel is locked into the ejection port there is a rather substantial gap between the barrel and the slide at the bottom right edge of the barrel (if looking from the back of the grip) as compared to some other pistols. I see this as a potential ingress area for debris. Whether it's an actual issue I don't know. Someone will hopefully test it for me on YouTube.