3 die vs 4 die sets handgun

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BondoBob

New member
I currently have a 4 die set for 38/357. I found setting up and adjusting to be very simple and got great results. I believe that's a roll crimp. My next purchase will be for 44Mag dies. I'm wondering if I should just get a 3 die set this time. I'm using a single stage press. It seems the 3 die set takes a bit more time and effort for initial set up. But I'd expect time savings not having to swap for the 4th die. Does a 3 die set do the same crimp? Or is it a taper crimp, or in some other way not as good as the crimp I'd get with the 4th factory crimp die? All my stuff so far is from Lee Precision.

Thank,
 
The type of crimp is usually determined by whether the cartridge you are loading is primarily for revolvers or for semi-autos. Dies for .44 Magnum, which is a revolver round, generally produce a roll crimp. Dies for something like .45 ACP, which is a semi-auto, generally produce a taper crimp.

And that's why 3-die sets are fussier to set up: you're doing the bullet seating and the crimping in one step. That means the die needs to be set rather precisely so the seating operation is complete before the crimping operation squeezes the case mouth and starts carving away at the bullet.

Personally, I prefer the 4-die sets for handgun.
 
38SPL/357 uses a roll crimp. As mentioned, this can be done with the seating die. But it's a PITA to get set up correctly. Mostly due to the fact that it will still push the bullet into the case while doing the crimp also.

If your happy with the 4 die setup, why change that?

Instead i'd recommend a 4 hole turret press. Screw your dies into the turret, set them like you would a single stage press, and leave them.
For a caliber change, just pop out the turret, pop in the new turret and start loading.
Dies stay in the turret.
It's litterally almost that simple, and loading is much faster.
 
As mentioned above, I prefer the 4 die sets. Just makes things easier, simpler. I also load on a single stage and have been toying with getting a Lee turret press.
 
Mostly due to the fact that it will still push the bullet into the case while doing the crimp also.
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Technically, the die doesn't push the bullet into the case. The die stops the bullet from moving and the ram pushes the case up, over the bullet.

The key to doing good seat and crimp in one step is case length. Cases need to e uniform length. After that only takes a couple minutes to set your die to properly seat and crimp in one step. I don't see that as any PITA, its a once and done thing, until you change bullets.

Balance that against a crimp only (4th) die...your call, but to me, having to change the die to crimp is more of a PITA. And the crimp die requires the same uniformity of case length for proper operation, as well.

Yes, a turret or progressive press lets you put all the dies in place, but some of us don't have those, and some of us don't want those. I've had single stage, turret and progressive presses, and have ditched them all save the single stage press. With roll crimp cartridges, I seat and crimp in one step.

With taper crimp rounds I use a 4th die to taper crimp. Didn't for a long time, but then tried it, and have found rounds feed better in my guns, using the separate taper crimp die than they do using the taper crimp in the seating die.
 
Agree with 44 AMP, die setup for crimp and seat is maybe 2 minutes. Seat the bullet, pull back seating stem, crimp the case, screw seating stem back down until it touches bullet, done. All dependent on fairly consistent case length though. My understand was that for pistol calibers, 4 die set was just for progressive press, why use on a single stage.
 
"The key to doing good seat and crimp in one step is case length. Cases need to e uniform length."
Tattoo that on yourself if you have to. :)
 
Instead i'd recommend a 4 hole turret press. Screw your dies into the turret, set them like you would a single stage press, and leave them.
For a caliber change, just pop out the turret, pop in the new turret and start loading.
Dies stay in the turret.
Click to expand...

My Dillon 550b has changeable tool heads. However, I don't remember any "turret" presses for which you can buy extra turrets. Is there such a thing?
 
Hmm, I had figured I'd ultimately get the Lee Classic Turret Press at some point. I get your point 44AMP. Will have to stew on this a bit. For now changing dies with the breech lock bushings is no big deal.
 
Rifletom . . . go for it.

Rifletom:

I reloaded on a single stage press for thousands and thousands of rounds.

Should have switched to a turret press loooooong before I did.

Go for it. You'll be glad.

Life is good.
Prof Young
 
Should have switched to a turret press loooooong before I did.

Go for it. You'll be glad.
Click to expand...

Until the second time you go to seat a bullet with the expander die! :D

First time is an accident, can happen to anybody, right?

The second time, its obviously your mistake...
 
As I process all this information I realized something. If I change bullet types (length/shape) JHP vs LRN vs SWC for instance, I'd only have to re-set the seating die. I should be able to leave the crimp die alone as it's case length based. Correct?

I'm currently set up for Federal 38 spl cases which are all a tad under spec length, but all consistent so no resizing needed. When or if I switch to other cases that are longer, I'll resize and reset the crimp die for those.

If that's the situation, I'm going to stick with 4 die sets going forward. Also, I know a turret press is in my future.
 
If I change bullet types (length/shape) JHP vs LRN vs SWC for instance, I'd only have to re-set the seating die
Click to expand...

Sort of. Not the die body, only the seating stem. Once you have the seating die body set where you want it (crimp or no crimp) then when you change bullets you only need to adjust the bullet seating stem.

the exception is changing cases, from .38 to .357. If you have the seater die set to crimp .38s, you MUST back it off changing to .357s. You will ruin the .357 case (and maybe the bullet too) if you don't. You will also have to adjust your crimp die for the 0.135" difference in case length between .38 and .357.

if you are doing your crimp in a separate die, you still need to check your seater die body with .357 cases, to ensure the crimp shoulder in the seater die is high enough not to touch the longer case. Once done, tis done, and the only adjustment you'll need to make is the seating stem when you change from .357 to 38 and back. (you will need to adjust your expander die, each time you change length of cases, as well)

Crimp depends on die body adjustment and case length. It does not matter what the bullet length is, only that it is seated to the right place.

I'm currently set up for Federal 38 spl cases which are all a tad under spec length, but all consistent so no resizing needed.
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Lets be on the same page with terms, resizing is squeezing the fired case down to hold a new bullet. Its done in the resizing die.

Trimming is cutting excess length off the case mouth. It's done using a special tool, a case trimmer, most of the time.

Chamfering is another step, done after trimming (again with a special tool), and is done to break the sharp edge of the brass left by the trimmer cutting head.

There are "trim dies" but these are rarely used for regular case trimming, they're sometimes used in the process of case forming, which you aren't doing...
 
I hear you 44 amp . . .

44 Amp
Yeah, you have to stay in "order" with the turret press, and I've tried to seat a few bullets with the powder drop. Fortunately when you get out of sync it's pretty obvious.

Most dangerous things would be a double charge of powder, (really hard to do, but possible) or seating a bullet on an empty case.

My safety measures in that regard are a visual inspection of the case before I seat the bullet. Is there powder in there and does it look like the normal amount?

Also, if I get distracted, my mind wanders etc. and I don't recall checking for powder in that case, then that bullet goes into the reject box.

Of course on taller bullets (223, 44 mag, 45 colt) this means I have to remove the case from the machine to see if there is powder in there, but that's not a real problem.

Still love the turret over the single stage. Although when I reload 7.62x54r I go back to the single stage, as it sizes more easily, the powder charge is much bigger and I'm loading smaller quantiles.

Life is good.

Stay healthy.
Prof Young
 
All these years since early 80s, I have only used a 3 die set. I have never wished for something else. It is not hard to setup the seat and crimp die at all. That said, I've also 'standardized' the bullets loaded for each cartridge that I load. So it is rare now that I have to 'adjust' the seat/crimp die. Each of us though as found our 'best' way and preference. All works :) .
 
Hmm, I had figured I'd ultimately get the Lee Classic Turret Press at some point.
Click to expand...

Do it , you'll be so happy you did . I loaded pistol on a single stage at first . It works and it really helped me understand each step . Once I got the Lee CTP I was so much happier but still glad I started on a single . Auto indexing turret and throw in the auto drum powder measure and you're off to the races .

As for the dies you can go with the 3 die set and add the Lee collet crimp die which I use and love them . Also don't need the trim length to be perfect with the collet crimp die .
https://leeprecision.com/lee-collet-style-crimp-die/
 
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