3.67", Five-Shot Group @ 100 yds. with G21

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WalterGAII

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I know, you Sig and 1911 guys do this every day, but I thought I did pretty well, considering iron sights, etc.

Couple of local cops left a couple of their sil. targets up at 100 yds. I thought that I'd take a few shots, just to see what I could do with my G21. Five shots, 3.67", center-to-center. Three of the shots were in a group under three inches.

Oh, yeah, was shooting .40 Super through a threaded, compensated Accu-Match barrel. Bulk Rem. 180gr. fmjfp bullets, 13.5gr AA#7, CCI small rifle primers. Meprolight adjustable sights. Shot off a plastic Midway rest.

I have a pic, but you Glockhaters would probably scream that I'd shot the group at 15'.
 
singlespot144.jpg


Walt at 100yds......And who said Glocks werent accurate.....Shame on them.. :)



[This message has been edited by vyper005 (edited September 27, 2000).]
 
I told you all that Glocks can be accurate. Weren't you one of the ones that did not believe us Walter? Even though you can hit tennis balls at 70 yards or so? :)

Once Glocks are shown to be so accurate, then what will the detractors have left to criticize?
Chuck Taylor Ransom rested his Glock 17 at 1 inch at 25 yards, and his Glock 22 at about 2 inches at 50 yards. In a past magazine article, with several witnesses, the author scoped a stock Glock 21 and got a 1.75" group at 50 yards. These are STOCK guns.
Once you put a custom barrel in it and put a few bucks into it like other shooters do with other types of competition guns you can get a real sweet and accurate shooter.
Have you tried the full competition trigger job from Glockworks? Try it, it is great.
I have a number of Glocks that give me some extremely impressive groups, by any pistol standard. But, you hold the record with those groups. That is darn good shooting at 100 yards.




[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited September 27, 2000).]
 
Walter:

I shoot the nuts off of gnats at 100 yards with my 1911. I'd show you a pic but the Glocksters wouldn't believe it. :-)
 
Glocks are accurate but with a threaded, .40 super compensated barrel it's not really a Glock anymore. It's more of a Wolk (Walter+Glock). :)

------------------
"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA
 
I'll have to admit to being the originator of the "keyboard accuracy" terminology. I haven't tried shooting for groups at 100 yds. with my .45 ACP barrel, as I've been kind of bored with .45ACP for a while, now. .40 Super has more energy at 100 yds. than does .45ACP at the muzzle. I was fortunate, in that I got a great deal on the Accu-Match barrel from one of the former owners of Accu-Match. JR, of Lonewolf Distributors, had my .400 Cor-Bon Accu-Match barrel reamed to .40 Super by Aro-Tek, with a reamer provided free by Fernando, of Triton Cartridge.

I was initially concerned that my fired brass was expanding too much, but compared my measurements with a guy who's shooting a custom, Briley .40 Super barrel over a custom 1911 platform. My Accu-Match's chamber is just a little looser than his Briley barrel.

My G21 has a trigger pull just over 3.5#. I'm pretty happy with the .40 Super results.

Further fodder for the naysayers: I just measured three of the shots in the five-shot group. They measure 1.748", center-to-center. Of course, I doubt that they were three consecutive shots, ergo, the need for the five-shot-group measurement.
 
I don't doubt you at all, I would like to see alot more data (i.e. shoot many more groups at 100 yds) before a weapon is pronounced "accurate." If your particular weapon could shoot and average group of 3.67" at 100 yds out of 10-15 5 shot groups fired then I might be interested. For now with no further data I would just say it was a fluke. I must say it was a nice fluke though :D.

NJW in AZ
 
I believe you Walter. I know of a fella who can regularly hit golf balls at 75 yds with a match barreled 1911 where the only original parts might be the grip screws. That works out to be less than your group at 100 yds. The guy I am talking about is in the Bob Munden category for long range accuracy, but with far less publicity. So, yes it can be done and it can be done repeatedly with the right equipment, a steady rest and the right ammo.
 
In my platoon, I have a guy who I can only describe as gifted. He went
to the tea-room of the barracks at Colombier, ordered an espresso and
took the small cup with him. Since, back then, we still had to prepare
the targets (all electronic now :) ), he put the espresso cup onto the
target frame, went back 100 meters, took his rifle, loaded it with one
round and shot it. I know of once instance where he missed. And he did
this for about ten weeks, and on average we went 3 times a week to the
static range (where only the targets can move).

He never drank alcohol or smoked. He was just a phenomenal shot. And,
oh, he always fires standing, never prone, unless I ordered him.
 
Personally, I think the guy hitting a golf ball is a lot more impressive than a small group at 100 yards. First off, that group may have been way off the POA, but hitting a 1.5" target at that range with a .45ACP is impressive! I'm happy with the 1.5" groups from my Kimber at 25 yards, I'd die to be able to do that at 75 yards! :)
 
And I am one of those guys who is impressed by group sizes no matter where they impact. Afterall, a fellow can change his sights.

Walter:

Man I wish I had your eyesight. I couldn't line up open sights to get groups like yours for nuthin'. Can't even do it with a rifle anymore.
 
If a Glock with an Accumatch barrel isn't a Glock any more, then what is a $2000+ 1911 with a custom fitted Barsto barrel? Is it still a 1911?


Supposing that 3.67" groups at 100 yards is a fluke, then what if the average is, say, 5 inches? With open sights, is that still not damn good at 100 yards?


Let's see Walter, that means that with open sights, your gun is shooting under 1 inch at 25 yards. Not bad, eh? Presuming that you made some user error (it is nearly impossible to line up open combat sights perfectly every time at that range) it seems safe to say that your gun shoots well under 1 inch at 25 yards, when the shooter does his part.


Even though the last time we discussed this, you doubted my word, I will take you at your word, Walter. After all, my Glock 30 shoots under 2" at 25 yards easily so I can easily see yours doing better. (I would mention that I have gotten 1 inch groups at 25 yards with it, five shots measured center to center, on more than one occasion, but then everyone would freak out and call me a liar).






Ps- The most recent Glock 36 .45 review in "Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement" had groups under 2 inches at 25 yards, and the shooters mentioned that they were using a heavy 8 pound trigger and standard "ball in cup" Glock sights, which are NOT made for precision. The shooters mentioned that they could do better with other sights, and don't doubt it because I can't shoot Glock's standard sights with any long range precision either. I only mention this because someone was saying that in all the magazine reviews he has seen, he never saw a Glock .45 group under 2 inches at 25 yards, and "if magazine writers can't do it, then it must be impossible". I have seen many reviews with groups under 2 inches from a Glock, especially after putting night sights on it.



Some people just don't want to believe that Glocks are accurate so badly that they get to the point of plugging their ears and chanting "lalalalalalalala" if you tell them it can be done.







[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited September 28, 2000).]
 
RedBull: I don't remember disparaging you, but if I did, then I hereby apologize. I seem to remember claims of 1", offhand, which I find pretty tough to do with a stock G30.

I'm sure that my G21, with the Accu-Match barrel would shoot 1" at 25 yds, in the right hands.

My group was also shot with a smaller-caliber, much higher-velocity/flatter-shooting round than .45 ACP. On the other hand, I'm sure that Messiah Adoodi could shoot a 1" group at fifty yards with his G30, shooting upside down, between his legs.

I ordered a scope mount for my G21 last night, and will probably do some more 100-yd shooting. As a matter of interest, I have a great deal of trouble shooting good groups with rifles at 100 yds, using either iron sights or low-powered scopes. I'm accustomed, with rifles, to high-powered target scopes.

I sure want to be clear about my ability to shoot tennis balls out to 60 yds or so. I would never profess to being able to make every shot. I do hit quite a lot, and if I miss, it's not by much. All of this off the bench, of course. I've found it a lot easier to shoot a tennis ball at 60 yds, if I've started the session with the tennis ball at about 25 yds and drive it out to where it's no longer practical to take shots at it. My secret is that I always focus deeply, imagining that the tennis ball is a Democrat's brain.
 
By the way. I'm the guy that talked about the articles on the Glock 30. I still have them and the 6 or 7 out of the 15 that did test in a bench rest averaged about 2.5" at 25yd. If you've been shooting long enough you will find out that no matter what the average groups are for a particular gun, occaisionally you'll get one that is unusually accurate. Be it a tighter barrel or smoother trigger, that particular gun just shoots better then most. As I said then and now,
I love my Glock 30 but I'm not going to take isolated accuracy claims and run around town saying the Glock 30 can shoot 1" groups at 25yds. A knowledged shooter would know better. That doesn't mean you can't achieve that group, it's just not the norm.

Whether your gun is a souped up 1911 or Glock, it is as much the origional gun as Jeff Gordans Nascar is a Chevy Monte carlo.

------------------
"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA
 
That was Smokin' shooten walter. We ought to start a new shooting disipline. 5 shots at
100 yards with iron sights. I'm in for the
glock vs. Sig with laser/smart gun and with target seeking bullets-shootoff.

BTB how was the recoil generated by this round?

[This message has been edited by bobo (edited September 28, 2000).]
 
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