2nd American Revolution

Perhaps this deserves a topic of its own, but either way this shouldn’t be too far off topic.

Without regard to a revolution, if the Constitution and/or BOR were to be rewritten, what and how would you modify it (if anything)? This is just an exercise in imagining the possibilities. When you put pen to paper, it’s remarkable what the founding fathers produced.

For openers, I might clear up any confusion in the 2nd with:

The right of the people to own, possess, and carry any type of arms is a birthright and absolute. No level of government shall pass any legislation pertaining to these arms or any item required for them to function. Invoking Marshal Law shall not nullify this amendment. Any individual, or agent of the government infringing on this right will be guilty of treason.

I realize that any attempt to rewrite the Constitution today would not result in anything near what I have come up with (or anything as good as we have). Maybe, if we could just close some of the loopholes! Thoughts?



[This message has been edited by geneb (edited July 10, 1999).]
 
Allow states to limit the right to keep arms for those who are insane, minors, and felons - and no others. The federal government should not be allowed such power. I am afraid if you do not specify what the exceptions are, the supreme court would allow some "reasonable" restrictions.

Also, allow states to prosecute federal officers for violating the second amendment.

[This message has been edited by traveller (edited July 10, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by traveller (edited July 10, 1999).]
 
Rewriting the 2nd would be a challenge. One interesting discussion is how to handle the more serious weapons mankind now has available. As passionate as I feel about the right to keep and bear arms, I would not feel comfortable with 'weapons of mass destruction'.

For example, I don't think my wealthy, nutcase neighbor is a good one to possess biological, chemical or nuclear weapons. Personally, I'd prefer he go no further than a slingshot ... ;)

All kidding aside, this is a serious and challenging real world issue. Since the thread is going down this path, what do my fellow TFL members really think about any proper limits of any kind on the RKBA?
 
Jeff,

Several of my friends had input into the trial version that I put up. We chose to stay with arms with the intent that it would include whatever type of armament a soldier might carry 200 years from now. It gags me when I hear some buffoon (with the power of their own TV show) spout off that I am free to own a musket because that’s what the 2nd supposedly permitted.

I understand what you’re saying. I’m at the point where I don’t trust the government AT ALL. I would rather take my chances having an amendment that was absolute. If I can afford a B2 bomber, have the space for a runway, then what’s the problem? You can use the same arguments that we use in defending our RKBA. If someone is bent on destroying a city with biological, chemical or nuclear weapons that they have been able to acquire, then the prohibition or recognition of a right to bear such weapons will have no bearing. Criminals, by their definition don’t care about the law. I know, I’m preaching to the choir, but perhaps taking it to the extreme.

I tend to take a different view of the BOR. Does a convicted felon no longer have the right of free speech or religion or due process guaranteed under the 1st and 14th amendments? They certainly appear to retain those rights. So just how and when did it happen that a convicted felon that has served their sentence no longer has the God given RKBA? You might ask what would make me think of such a thing. Imagine pleading to a felony charge (use the Weaver setup as an example), though it doesn’t have to be violent or gun related. You avoid jail time, but find that you may no longer vote or own any weapons. Why? The more marginalized the gun culture becomes, the more this should be in your mind. Hell, it doesn’t even have to be a felony (18 U.S.C. 922 (d)(9)).


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ubi ignes est?

[This message has been edited by geneb (edited July 15, 1999).]
 
PAPERS PLEASE

Kodiac, Your post included remarks about off-target hits at "drug road-blocks".

I've seen so-called drug road-blocks, I've been stopped at so-called drug road-blocks, I've been detained at so-called drug road-blocks.

People ask about when the government is going to actually step over the line? What in the heck do they think a drug road-block is? Did anyone swear or affirm that I was in posesstion of controlled substances? Was there a writ or warrent that described my vehicle and the substance in question? Heck no! The us supreme court ruled that my 4th amendment rights and yours travel with you, into your car, into an apartment you may have leased, into a hotel room, etceteras.

HALT! Ausweiss Controll!

Road block, Ausweisee Control. Drivers license check,

==The following story is true, the names have been changed, but the dialogue is pretty much
as I remember===

Good evening sir, may I see your drivers license, state registration and proof of insurance?

Why of course Officer.

Thank you. Live around here?

No Sir.

Have you been drinking?

No Sir.

Will you pull off onto the shoulder there to your right?

May I have my papers back?

In a moment, will you please move to the shoulder?

Of course.

Mr Dog, will you step out of the car and move over to the rear that vehicle in front of you?

Of course. Dog rolls up window, takes keys and exits car, locking the door behind him.

Patrolman has a chat with senior who takes the papers and approaches

"Mr Dog, How do you do? I am Sgt Friendly"

"Sargent, my pleasure," shake hands

"Mr Dog, is the information on your drivers license, registration and insurance correct?

"No Sargent, the address on the insurance and registration is correct, the address on the DL is dated"

"I see, Mr Dog, we would like to have a look inside your vehicle, may we have your keys?"

"No Sargent, you may not."

"Mr Dog, our purpose here is to blah blah blah, (good and wonderful stuff) and we would like to send you on your way. The quickest way to do this is for you to let us have a quick look in your car so that you can go on about your business. Where are you headed tonight?"

"Dear Sargent, I was a military policeman. During my tour of duty, I was stationed in Germany for a while. In Germany, we often participated alongside the Polzei in actions that very closely resemble this one you and I are taking place in tonight. The very large difference was that in Germany, the right to refuse an unwarrented search did not exist. I applaud your efforts at reducing crime, and I remember you and your brothers in my prayers. This I promise you is so. However, as an American. I will not submit to an unwarrented search. It is a matter of principal you see. May I have my papers back and be on my way?"

"No sir, not just yet."

The evening went on for about an hour while the K9 was brought up to to walk all over my jeep. The officers really wanted me to let them in. I really didn't want to surrender my 4th amendment rights. Eventually they relented, told me to get an address change on my DL post haste. Sgt Friendly and I shook hands, and at that time, I asked him if there was anything in my vehicle he wanted to see. He asked me to open my glove box, which I did, he asked if he could look under the seat, no problem. He asked why I just didn't do that in the first place, I told him that maybe he just doesn't get it. I really wasn't trying to be a prick. I am a citizen, I am not a consumer, taxpayer, voter, whatever other classification scheme the gov likes to use in place of citizen, but a citizen, with civil rights enumerated in and protected by the Bill of Rights. This Ausweiss Controll Nazi "Paperz Pleeze" crap must stop now, PERIOD. No one has any legal, ethical, or moral obligation to assume criminal activity on my part without EVIDENCE. Long hair, 4x4, kayaks on the roof fits a profile. I know that, add that up with 11PM and 100 back-road miles from home address, and its a better profile. But so what?

I don't LIKE paying for Clintons cigars
I don't LIKE having a drivers license
I don't LIKE gun control laws
I don't LIKE drug laws
I don't LIKE a lot of things, but they are the laws of the land, I respect them, I obey them. I haven't even had a beer in over 12 years.

Keep passing laws, and all that is accomplished is creating more criminals. How many so-called criminals are really out there? I mean house-breakers, murderers, robbers, rapists, muggers. Real criminals doing real crimes? Not all that many. Start adding in kids who smoke CIGARETTES at age 14, the mom who drives 37 mph on an empty road in a 25mph zone to get to the soccer game, the fellow with a bad muffler, on and on and on, and sooner or later we are all criminals.

Make a rolling stop, get caught, pay the fine, fine payment doesn't get posted for some reason, no problem, you have a receipt. 90 days past due date, a bench warrent gets issued, get stopped at a "Safety Check-point" and go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, and give up 200 bucks to get back out again. Cuffed and stuffed, fingerprinted, photographed, booked. No kidding. Don't say it doesn't happen, it happened to me. Yes I have an arrest record. I have an arrest record for what amounts to a rolling stop. This is WRONG.
 
we are being controlled by laws written not to control wrongs but written to make us uninnocent

my favorite quote from a law provider:

"What you don't understand son, is who the man IS in this situation."

dZ
"there is no honor among thieves
and even less among politicians"
 
Amen Gary,

The figure on the colonists is one of my most used. Most often I trot that one out to explain how those who care (i.e., us) control the sheeple of the world.

Good show.

- Anthony
 
dog3 - excellent display of passive resistance and standing up for your rights. The act of excersizing your rights should not be grounds for a warrant.

------------------
Peace...
Keith

If the 2nd is antiquated, what will happen to the rest.
"the right to keep and bear arms."
 
We pattriots are losing the information war for the hearts and minds of the American sheeple. Truth is found on the shortwave and internet but it is a small audience. In any future internal conflict, the government will use the boob tube to create virtual reality scenarios that will be believed by sheeple people. The technology is there to create scenes of devestastion tha t will be blamed on Prophecy Christians, Militias, anti abortion people, and other "dissidents". The 95% sheeple people will be more than willing to come under the umbrella of the NWO-US regime.With the weapons of mass destruction and huge numbers of foreign troops that the NWO has (look at Nato alone), the American patriots would be in serious trouble even with the defection of some Us troops and maybe some of the militarized US police forces. American sheeple people have proven themselves ripe for complete slavery.The 2.5% patriots are in for a very difficult battle if hostilities break out. George Washington's final vision does however give the Sons of Liberty a victory in the end. Perhaps it is part of the end time battle.
 
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