2nd American Revolution

D

Dorsai

New member
Actually, I guess you could call it the 3rd American Revolution, the Confederacy lost the 2nd.
This is what I'm talking about. At what point do you (we) decide that it has gone too far and our only chance to restore the rule of the Constitution and our rights as free Americans is armed insurrection? The handwriting is on the wall, from the "Crime Bill" regulations, to the various state bans, ad infinitum. If anyone out there believes that the gun laws will ever loosen up or approach sanity, you are living in a dream world. I think all of us can agree that they (and numerous other laws) already violate the constitution, but none of us are ready to take that next awesome step. Many of us swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. At what point do we take up arms against the domestic enemy?


------------------
Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle


[This message has been edited by Dorsai (edited July 05, 1999).]
 
Good question and I honestly don't know the answer. I suppose that one day the government will step too far over the line and it will just start from there. There is a limit to what the American people will take, we just haven't reached it yet.

Personally, I hope the next revolvution takes place in the voting booth and not on the battlefield. But, if it comes down to it, I will fight for what I believe in. The Constitution.
 
Just to interject a bit of reality here:


1)Never ever let your enemy know what you are thinking

2) If you begin to discuss specifics, someone could make a case for conspiracy

3) Some things are best left to private discussion

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Tough to say. I don't think the colonists decided April 19, 1775 would be the day. It just happened. I expect the next revoulution will just happen.


------------------
Bruce Stanton
CDR, USN-Ret.
Sgt., Kings Co. Sheriff - Ret.
 
It is notjust about the GUNS. It is about all of our civil liberties. There are so many laws on EVERYTHING. I even got a ticket one because I was fishing off my own dock - standing on my boat, on my own property! Fish and Game then for weeks would "glass" me when ever I went to my boat because I had thrown the F&G officer off my property. My boat was tied! Doesnt matter - it was in the water... I have seen Road Blocks for searches for drugs turn up 100s of other violations from tags to seatbelts to window tinting... with NO DRUG VIOLATION CHARGED to anyone! What kind of road black was that?!?!? Why do we have to taxes on our gas, and then taxes for the liscense plates, and then properties taxes and renuals for ever after? If our INCOME is taxed why pay SALES TAXES?
And it is not just about TAXES... or LAWS invading EVERY ORIFACE of the body... Its ABOUT EVERYTHING.

But Here - we preach to the choir. We know these things... We CARE about these things. I would say 99% of the U.S. DOESNT CARE. That it the problem. Sheople are to complacent. They dont care unless it affects them directly. Even then they dont care enough. Having been SITCOM-FED like cattle on the couch... Brains and intelect withered to the point that DAN RATHER is a voice to be listened to, and not questioned. The Sheople bleet and moan when consumer good prices rises... They care about Cable TV and the status quo... To keep there little modern utopian nirvanas blissfully detached from reality. Even HISTORY has been edited to the point of sound bites and nothing is learned. Schools are places where the masses are conditioned to the Opiates of Society. Everything is Nothing, and Nothing is Everything. Sheople get worked up about the ending of Seinfeld and about Sports Play-Offs. Jack Offs is more like it. WHO CARES about a damn ball game player making MILLIONS just to play a freaking game - yet these brats are the HEROS of these generations of Wage-Slaves we have become. Sheople have lost sight of what is important, and what is good and right. In earlier eras we as a nation have had an identity - we have had goals. Now we have won this "FREEDOM" for ourselves and we know not what to do with it... so we sit around and do nothing. And when that happens our government with nothing bettter to do has become NIT-PICKY on everything... We have become victems of our own success and have grown fat and lazy and complacent. Eternal Vigilance? Damn - wasnt looking Ooops! We have inslaved ourselves! The Tyrany we had fought off is now home grown... Like a kids pet BOA CONSTRICTOR it slowly grew and coiled up around us. We are no choked by it. And it is TOO LATE. Our Military is now policing the globe and could EASILY police US here in the states... Change at this point is almost impossble. Should change occur it would be a UGLY business. It would be violent and bloody. It would take the sheople waking up - opening there eyes and focusing on objects further than the TV screen... It would take sheople to stop being sheople and realizing that they have been sucking PROPAGANDA and brain washing at the hands of those "Officials" that they didnt bother to vote for or against... It would require them to stand and take up the position of CITIZEN and PATRIOT... "A NATION of COWARDS" How truely accurate that is!
We need a Thomas Payne of the 90s to write Common Sense again - this time in the form the Sheople can take it - 30 second sound bites and blurbs on the Tube... Talking heads that speak the truth - and dont have to give "equal time" to the enemy. The Enemy certainly gives us quarter! Some folks have accomplished this in samll parts... Rush was successful in part - G Gordon Liddy had an audiance... Others come and go... but not in FORCE. We need an RKBA E.R. hitting PRIME TIME... Every night - on Every Channel... So the truth will get out in a way sheople can swallow it. So it can be understood by the deminished thought capacity of todays arm chair generals and presidents.

Untill then, let the choir sing to us - so WE dont forget... To strengthen OUR faith in our beliefs... Because WE NEED it...

chew.gif


------------------
Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...
FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
I think the way to reach the sheep is to talk about and hammer home taxes.

The other day Bookkie posted about taxes and how much we pay....56% according to him. Just for the fun of it I decided to see....I got too pissed off to even reach 56% and I had lots of things left to calculate. When I calmed down I tried to figure out what I'm getting for that outgo. Think about it.. is what you get for your 56% worth it? Is it spent wisely and frugally?

The average person doesn't care about guns or liberties...as Kodiac said, they are numbed. But everyone cares about money and their salaries. Hit them with that

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Historically, only about 1/3 of the colonist supported the revolution. 1/3 were loyal to the crown and 1/3 were apathetic. The latter could be swayed by being pillaged by one faction - something which happened quite frequently during 18th century warfare.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Greyfox: The government has stepped over the line plenty of tijmes; Our problem is that they've gotten us into the habit of moving the line every time. I mean, just think what the reaction would have been if they'd tried to impose today's gun control all at once in the begining...

My personal standard is when they have rigged the ballot to the point where it's no longer even POSSIBLE to change the system peacefully. (We're not quite there yet, although between ballot access laws, "computer crashes" while counting ballots, and the NES only compiling votes for candidates they like, we're not too far, either.)

The way I see it, you need everything to win an election that you need to win a war, except the guns. So if we can't win elections which aren't rigged, (Never mind fair, war isn't fair either.) we wouldn't win a revolution either. Only when we win at the ballot box, and have it stolen from us, would winning a revolution be possible.
 
This quote may or may not have been presented to this forum yet, if so, it is an apt reminder, but I came across this quote by some crotchety old fart named Alexander Tyler, and it seems particularly apropos in the context of this subject. The quote is especially interesting when taking into account where America might be in the life cycle of a "democracy", as Tyler sees it. At what point does revolution spontaneously occur, what level of realization is required before people decide that we're getting damn close to hitting the big "Reset" button on this country? How many lost liberties and oppressive taxes are we to be subjected to before people see through the propaganda being fed to them as a daily part of their lives, before the veil of societal opiates, the “breads and circuses” fail to perform their task of subjugation?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with a result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependency;
From dependency back into bondage.
[/quote]

This is from "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic" by Alexander Fraser Tyler (1748 - 1813).



------------------
Don LeHue

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arms reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.
 
Does everything need to be spelled out..?

"We the Sheople, in order to form a more perfect UN..."

[This message has been edited by antiUSSA (edited July 06, 1999).]
 
I'm not sure what it would take. My CPA and deer camp buddy went into the tax thing several years ago adding the sales taxes etc. and it was quite revolting. One of the other camp members, a doctor, got into what he paid for insurance on top of taxes and it went on from there.

The amount of money taken from our pockets direcly and indirectly by our government is insane! The problem is as my Dr. friend stated "My taxes would pay the salary for the first two floors of the State Office Building."

Our government has made so many of our citizens employees, many of whom are our friends and neighbors, that our friends and neighbors depend on the government. How will we deal with that if the time comes?

They have had 223 years to dig in, and in the past 50 have done one hell of a job of it.
I'd say they have around a 175 year start on us.

One revolution started at DC's farm when they started talking about putting a meter on her private well, another will start here if any such nonsense goes on.

It will take them pushing too hard too often.
They used to have better sense than that. Now I don't know.

Sorry for the tirade and my sincere thanks to those of you who work for the government.
Hank
 
Brett,
You have some very valid points and I can't argue with them. What I'm getting at is that the government thugs have become used to doing whatever they want without opposition. They have become over confident and down right cocky about trampling peoples rights. Sooner or later they are going to do something so outrageous that even the blindest sheeple are going to scream bloody murder. Perhaps it will be in conection to a natural disaster, perhaps an economic crash, maybe Y2K or maybe just one more innocent person killed by a government mistake. Some where, some how the right event will happen at just the right time. What, when and where I don't know. A spark will become a flame, the flame a fire and the fire an inferno.
But, when that final straw falls, all hell is gonna break loose!
 
Brett:
Your comment about the ballot box reminded me of a thread that was on TFL in May. It can be found at http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22953 . The short story is that guns and force have been used in this country (in fairly recent times) to force political change. I think it is worth following the links to read about it.
It is also an example of why we need the RKBA and why many politicians fear it.

Dave
 
Jeff,
No agency, just my frustration. DC is right, it is one of those questions with which you must be careful of the answer. The problem that I see is that everyone (me included) is waiting for some horrendous act that will tip the scales and mobilize a large segment of the population. Big brother has been very skillful about relieving us of our Constitutional rights incrementally and I don't think they will make a major move until we are in the position of England or Australia, and no longer have the arms to resist. I don't believe the Columbine H.S. shootings were engineered by the government. I'm not that paranoid. But it serves as an example. Our opposition is patient enough to just wait for opportunities to arrive, opportunities that they know will eventually show up. Then they take advantage of them.
Columbine is an example. Figure that on a typical school day, there are 125-150 million kids in school across the country. For 12 of them to die in a shooting is so statistically small as to be non-existent. How many kids were injured or killed in vehicle accidents last year? Or sports injuries? But, it makes great news and the left uses these anomalous incidents to make laws affecting the entire nation in order to stop events that occur once, twice, even ten times.
I'm on my soapbox again. No government agency, just frustration and a fear that we are all frogs waiting for the water to boil.

------------------
Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
 
IMO, this thread covers the basis for revolution. It spans most of the problems that this country has and ties them all to a central area - our current (form of) government.

Dorsai - Bullseye!
When, where, how...As others posted, no one knows! That's why we must be ready to react, just as our reps are ready to make new laws.

Kodiak - Bullseye!
They have been sneaky, and we have been assleep! ENOUGH!

4V50 Gary - Bullseye!
The apathetic will need to be informed of their probable loss of "easy life" - FREEDOM
to get their attention.

DonL - Bullseye!
We stand today at the last line of your quote, looking toward the End. How long our bondage will last depends on us, as we are the "Watchdogs" guarding what is left of our freedoms.

DC - Bullseye!
Define the word Conspiracy and you will have all the reasons for our government to further restrict it's citizens.

------------------
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2
 
If you did overthrow the government, what would you replace it with? You could not have a free press or elections, because the liberal media hates you and the people blindly believe what the media tells them they believe. I for one am not too excited about living in a place without free press and elections. You can not secede, because just about every part of the country is corrupt, not just CA and the Northeast.

It seems to me that the only alternative is to change people's hearts, not start a war that it would be pointless (and probably impossible) to win.
 
traveller, in your own words we don't have a free press now, and I'm not so sure that we truly have elections anymore, the way the 2 major parties have rigged the deal. With the help of our "free press".

------------------
"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
 
I don't think "overthrow the government" is exactly what I said. I am in favor of restoring the government, that is a government that obeys the Constitution. I think that we have been truly blessed by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. We have not seen the like of the men who composed those documents and I don't think we could do as good a job today. If we were required to depose an illegal government and I were somehow temporarily in charge, we would hold elections. Every competent adult citizen would vote. If they re-elected Bill Clinton and he stuck by the Constitution (fat chance), I would support him. My criteria for any politician is simple. Stick to the Constitution. If we had such a revolution, I don't think it would have as great an effect on elections as it would on the law books. They would probably be reduced to 10% or less the size of our current statutes.

------------------
Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top