28 nosler: a magical cartridge design?

R

Roadkill2228

New member
Some time ago I started a thread here calling into question the astonishing claims being made about the then new .26 nosler round. It's a fantastic cartridge for sure but it's advertised as being in a league of its own when it's not and it doesn't shoot flat to 415 unless you allow it to hit 5 or 6 inches high at some point on the way there, a which point it doesn't outshine the .257 wby, or any of the big 7mms or big 30s shooting light-ish bullets. It's a great lr hunting round but its mpbr is not all it's cracked up to be. Anyway...they've released a .28 on the same case with the advertisement: "please welcome the .28 nosler as the worlds most powerful 7mm" Now here's what I'm scratching my head about....by the published ballistics (not just noslers) they actually did what they say they did. How? The case is smaller than a rum, about the same as an stw, and basically identical to the 7mm Dakota but with a rebates rim. Is there actually something about its cartridge design that makes it "go faster"? How did they do it?
 
Purely guessing: Maybe the same deal as the Federal Premium High-Energy cartridge for the '06: A 165-grain Sierra HPBT at 3,150 from a 26" barrel. Some sort of powder about which they aren't talking, or possibly a duplex loadiing.
 
get a Lazzeroni Warbird, I get 3707 out of the muzzle with 150 grain TTSX bullets in a 30 cal. with 175's I get 3465
 
Relatively efficient powder capacity for the bore size.

Careful selection of powders.

High chamber pressure.

Long barrels.


That's about it, from what I've seen.
 
case size is all, large case with about 90 plus grains of powder pushing a small bullet= no barrel life... it's a barrel burner for sure, but there are other cases out there that out perform it, like what I mentioned above
 
case size is all, large case with about 90 plus grains of powder pushing a small bullet= no barrel life... it's a barrel burner for sure, but there are other cases out there that out perform it, like what I mentioned above
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There's always a bigger fish. That's a given.

If you want to compare, at least stick to 6.5mm or 7mm cartridges (which is what the OP is asking about). :rolleyes:

And, when was the last time you were able to get factory ammo for your Warbird (or Firebird) that wasn't $130 a box? ...Or a rifle chambered for a Lazzeroni cartridge that didn't cost $5,500+?
...Or a Warbird that posted the "amazing" velocities without the use of a ridiculously long barrel? (Their advertised velocities are based on a 28" barrel. :rolleyes:)


You can pick up a Nosler Model 48 chambered for one of the Nosler cartridges for under $1,900 and buy off-the-shelf ammo for $60-80 a box. ...And the barrel will be 26" or less.
 
they most likely use proprietary powders to answer the OP directly, but like I posted above its not the best long range hunting round as the claim, they are late to the party.
 
FrankenMauser said:
There's always a bigger fish. That's a given.

If you want to compare, at least stick to 6.5mm or 7mm cartridges (which is what the OP is asking about). :rolleyes:

And, when was the last time you were able to get factory ammo for your Warbird (or Firebird) that wasn't $130 a box? ...Or a rifle chambered for a Lazzeroni cartridge that didn't cost $5,500+?
...Or a Warbird that posted the "amazing" velocities without the use of a ridiculously long barrel? (Their advertised velocities are based on a 28" barrel. :rolleyes:)


You can pick up a Nosler Model 48 chambered for one of the Nosler cartridges for under $1,900 and buy off-the-shelf ammo for $60-80 a box. ...And the barrel will be 26" or less.
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well sticking to the OP, most likely powder, they are streamlining a wild cat cartridge because they have the means to do it.

To answer you directly on to ur quoted post above. ... let's stick to 6.5 then get the 6.5 SAUM out shines the Nosler 26. want the ballistics for it?

As for getting factory ammo, you can easily buy Warbird rounds From John Lazzeroni as easy as you can order rounds from Nosler. .. I doubt any local gun shops are carrying much the Nosler 26 or 28 rounds.... could be wrong but I doubt it. so lame claim there.

If you are paying 5500 for a gun chambered in the Warbird, well more power to you, you paid too much!

and 28" barrel, sorry mine is 26"... and all the ones I have seen and shot have been 26" and my velocities are from my two guns chambered in the Warbird. or should we call it the MSM. Meat seeking missile.

And buying a rifle off the shelf, cool if that's what you want a mass produced rifle that may or may not be consistent depending on what day of the week it was assembled.

so yes rolling my eyes too.

But back to the OP, their claims are lame. there are many other rounds out there that do a better job. Warbird and the Nosler 26 and 28 are all barrel burners... so it's 6's there
 
It's important to some

It's nice to own the faster 7MM ever. But, what does it do do for the everyday, practical shooter?
 
new .26 nosler round. It's a fantastic cartridge for sure but it's advertised as being in a league of its own when it's not and it doesn't shoot flat to 415 unless you allow it to hit 5 or 6 inches high at some point on the way there, a which point it doesn't outshine the .257 wby
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Looking at the data the 26 Nosler shoots 140 gr bullets 100 fps slower than the 257 WBY shoots 120's. Not only a 20 gr heavier bullet, but with the much better BC's of the 6.5's vs the 25 calibers I'd guess the 26 Nosler is quite a bit ahead of the 257 WBY.

Ran the numbers just for fun

If both 26 Nosler and 257 WBY are zeroed at 300 yards their trajectory is almost identical out to 400 yards. Both will be 2.8" high at 100 and a bit over 8" low at 400 yards. But the 26 Nosler will still have about 2025 ft lbs of energy at 400 vs only 1570 for the 257 WBY. That is a gain of almost 25%. And 8" low will still allow you to make hits on most game animals with no hold over. I guess it depends on your definition of "shoots flat to 415 yards". But with that zero you can hold on an animals body and make hits from the muzzle to a bit over 400 yards. I don't think Nosler lied about anything, they just left out the details of how they calculated that.

They are showing 160'sfrom a 28 Nosler 100-300 fps faster than any other 7mm magnum out there, about 3300 fps. The 7mm Rem mag is they only 7mm I've ever fooled with and I could never break 3000 fps with any accuracy. Anything faster than 2900-2950 and accuracy was all over the place. If they can really get 3300 with good accuracy then it should do the job.

The trajectory isn't that much different, about 4" flatter at 400 yards for the 28 Nosler, but give the 28 about 450 ft lbs more energy vs 7mm Rem mag at that range.

I can see both of these being of interest to hunters. Target shooters are only interested in trajectory and punching holes in paper. Hunters have to not only hit the target, but have enough bullet speed and energy to destroy body parts. Hunters don't shoot enough to burn out a barrel in a lifetime of hunting so they aren't too concerned about that.
 
The Latest Ballistic Wonders.........

....they're nothing short of miraculous, obsoleting everything that came before........
And to think, there's probably some old, grizzled, sourdough of a prospecter/trapper/Hunter, holed up in some cabin in the Arctic, with a hoplessly obsolete, iron-sighted, model '95 Winchester. He's thinking maybe he should get another box of 30-40 Krag ammo before Autumn closes in because the last box he bought maybe fifteen years ago is getting low. He figures he's doing poorly if he only gets 17 or 18 head of game out of a box of shells. 220 grain Corelokt's or Silvertips always worked well for him.
Yeah, I know, it's fiction, right. Guys like that passed away 40 years ago, and their heir has traded off the old Winchester for something with plastic furniture, like an AR, and the old cabin has rotted into the ground...... And the game animals have evolved to be immune to lesser cartridges than at least a Weatherby Magnum, and are hardly approachable within the reach of that ancient Springfield round they used back in the world wars.
It's what the world has come to. Shoot large, shoot fast, shoot super-flat, or get out of the way, go home, and take a nap.
I think I will stick with a boring old 270 Winchester. Or, just for Deer, mind you, perhaps I will handicap myself with a 30WCF, which is now little better than a spear.
These new sensational cartridges by Nosler and so many others, are simply the latest reinvention of the wheel. The greatest limitation of any shooting apparatus is its weakest component, which is usually the shooter.
 
you know pathfinder, when it was first introduced the .270 wcf was frowned upon by some with much the same sentiment we are expressing toward these new nosler rounds. When it was brought out it was one of the meanest, flattest shooting loads out there period. I love my .270 too...I posted on the reloading forum that I am soon (within 3 months, busy) to post my findings with handloads utilizing the 180 grain woodleigh bullet in my .270. so far it stabilized just fine in the standard 1:10 twist (and woodleigh did design it explicitly for the .270 wcf) and shows great promise with rl 25 and magnum primers (findings will be posted for load data for rl-25, rl-22, and IMR 7828, probably all with cci or winchester magnum primers).

About what was mentioned comparing the .26 Nosler to the .257 wby... I do realize the huge difference in bcs and downrange energy, but as was also shown, mpbr is not hugely different, and supposedly unsurpassed mpbr was noslers entire selling point for that round.

I am not doubting noslers ballistic claims for their .28 nosler, just to be clear. I believe them. I just honestly want to know what makes that case superior to the rum? Is the rum so inefficient that its actually unable to reach the same velocity in any reasonable length barrel? I read an article in a gun magazine (either Shooting Times or Rifle I think, cant remember) and they were able to realize noslers claimed velocities with off the shelf powders, so it's not about proprietary blends or anything top secret like that.
 
also, waveslayer, I have no interest whatsoever in the .30 warbird, this is a 7mm cartridge in question. Lazz has their firebird I suppose, but it's completely irrelevant. My question is not at all "should I buy a .28 Nosler" nor is it "so what is the fastest 7" nor is it "which round should I go with". Buying any of those rounds or the rifles they're chambered in is completely out of my financial question and even if it weren't I could by several much more practical guns for the same money as either one of these. It's purely a question of "this is what Nosler did...how did they do it?" Nothing against you or John Lazzeroni but it's just really got nothing to do with this.
 
Roadkill2228 said:
also, waveslayer, I have no interest whatsoever in the .30 warbird, this is a 7mm cartridge in question. Lazz has their firebird I suppose, but it's completely irrelevant. My question is not at all "should I buy a .28 Nosler" nor is it "so what is the fastest 7" nor is it "which round should I go with". Buying any of those rounds or the rifles they're chambered in is completely out of my financial question and even if it weren't I could by several much more practical guns for the same money as either one of these. It's purely a question of "this is what Nosler did...how did they do it?" Nothing against you or John Lazzeroni but it's just really got nothing to do with this.
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it was only to show that Nosler's claim that it's the fattest shooting round etc etc... is not true and that there are other rounds out there that perform better, that's all. not selling anything or pushing anything just adding my 2 cents on Nosler's claim is not an accurate one to make.
 
Got it...yeah these new rounds are pretty awesome and I like that they fit in an 06 length action but the hype surrounding them would lead one to believe they are head and shoulders above the competition, that no one else comes close. That said, with a case of this capacity the .28 makes a heck of a lot more sense than the .26. Speaking of the .26, DoubleTap Ammo claims to have safely loaded and is offering a load with the 129 ablr at 3600 fps. 3600! Do you guys really believe that? Better yet is there even a slight chance that someone has chronied it?
 
waveslayer said:
(...)
As for getting factory ammo, you can easily buy Warbird rounds From John Lazzeroni as easy as you can order rounds from Nosler. .. I doubt any local gun shops are carrying much the Nosler 26 or 28 rounds.... could be wrong but I doubt it. so lame claim there.
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Oh, yea... You CAN buy ammo from Lazzeroni. ...For $130+ per box. :eek:
Did you even read my post?

waveslayer said:
If you are paying 5500 for a gun chambered in the Warbird, well more power to you, you paid too much!
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If you aren't paying $5,500+ for a Lazzeroni rifle, then it isn't a Lazzeroni.
If it doesn't come from Lazzeroni, then it's a knock-off. The PTG "Lazzeroni" reamers are not licensed. They're reverse-engineered 'copies'. And, like PTG reamers for .458 SOCOM and several other cartridges, they're 'copies' that have some rather nasty mistakes that can create dangerous situations for anyone that chambers a rifle with those reamers.
If yours works, then more power to you. Give the lottery a shot.

waveslayer said:
and 28" barrel, sorry mine is 26"... and all the ones I have seen and shot have been 26" and my velocities are from my two guns chambered in the Warbird. or should we call it the MSM. Meat seeking missile.
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You like the cartridge. We get it. Will you let the original poster have a discussion about the Nosler cartridges, already?

waveslayer said:
And buying a rifle off the shelf, cool if that's what you want a mass produced rifle that may or may not be consistent depending on what day of the week it was assembled.
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And your "custom" rifle may or may not be worth the cost, depending upon what day of the week the 'smith decided to get black-out drunk and come in hungover. There is a 'World Class' gunsmith 2 miles from me, well renowned for his work with the 550 RNS Magnum and the dozens of his rifles that have been in gun magazines, built either for dangerous game in Africa, or for competition shooters in the states.
I asked him to open an ejection port, and provided a dimensioned drawing specifying exactly what I wanted; along with cutting and crowning a barrel, and drilling and tapping for the new front sight position.

He cut the port free-hand and completely screwed the pooch, by cutting not just the wrong shape, but notably oversized.
Then he cut the barrel to the wrong length, drilled the sight base screw holes the wrong diameter, and used the wrong type of crown.

Oh, but wait, there's more! He also stripped the bluing off of the whole rifle and reblued it to get his preferred color, even though I specifically instructed him not to touch the finish (other than the damage done by opening the port and working on the barrel). And then he tried holding the rifle for ransom (and placing a mechanics' lien on it, through the Sheriff) when I refused to pay for the WRONG work and UNAUTHORIZED work for which he was charging me.
Quality! :rolleyes:

Regardless of whether or not you can trust any given gunsmith... you're missing one very important point. Nosler guarantees the performance of their rifles. They're not Tikkas, or Marlins, or Remingtons, or Savages, that just get slapped together, thrown in a cardboard box with a loose trigger lock that will beat the crap out of the rifle, and shipped out by the pallet. They're tested, individually, before being certified and carefully packed for individual shipment.
 
270 x 180?

Well, Roadkill, I would be interested to read your findings with the 180 grain woodleigh bullet in your .270. Will you be using a chronograph? Which barrel length do you have? I have had no difficulty achieving 3,000 fps with 150 grain Nosler Partitions. Favorite powder for this application? So far, Norma N-205 is the cat's meow.....
But getting back to some semblance of the topic we began with, i.e., 26 & 28 Noslers: No doubt, they show a large increase in energy over the 264 Winchester and 7mm Remington magnums, at the muzzle. With identical bullets, if you stretch the range out to 500 yards, I believe you will find that while the Nosler rounds will still be ahead, it won't be by nearly as much. But with that much energy at the muzzle, the shooter must endure substantially more recoil to gain very little at 500 yards. One could argue for flatter trajectory...... but they all shoot pretty flat. The most valid argument is for long range accuracy with acceptable recoil. The most promising candidates will have calibers of .264, .277, or .284. The Nosler rounds will be terribly inefficient. The maximum worthwhile case capacity will be found with 30-'06 size cases. That would include the 6.5mm Remington Magnum. but not the 264 Winchester, which in real life is little if any better than a 270 Winchester. The other suitable cases are derived from the 284 Winchester. The 6.5 Norma is one of the more interesting newcomers. the problem with fatter cases, to me, is one of magazine capacity. The model 70 Winchester, in standard calibers like 270 Winchester, is a 5+1 capacity rifle. Every choice, at some level, is a compromise, sacrificing one potential to gain another. Some of the potential gains are just not worth the price you must pay to obtain them.
So, it looks to me that the best long range hunting calibers for one who reloads, are: 6.5-'06; 270 Winchester; 280 Remington; and 280 Ackley. If the hunter does not reload, that leaves only the 270 Winchester from this list, plus, without handloading, you really have to add the 30-'06 Springfield. The magnums, and especially the Nosler magnums, come in with too much unwanted baggage for such little benefit to be gained. Even if the rifle can group 5 shots into a half minute at 800 yards off the bench-rest, how will that serve the hunter in the field who is likely to have to improvise some support from a kneeling positon when the shot is longer than he can take off-hand? I see the true advantage of the magnums is sheerknock down power at closer range on perhaps dangerous animals. Maybe, a 338 or 375 makes more sense at that point. I will pass on the 28 Nosler, the Lazeroni's, and the like.
 
FrankenMauser said:
Oh, yea... You CAN buy ammo from Lazzeroni. ...For $130+ per box. :eek:
Did you even read my post?


If you aren't paying $5,500+ for a Lazzeroni rifle, then it isn't a Lazzeroni.
If it doesn't come from Lazzeroni, then it's a knock-off. The PTG "Lazzeroni" reamers are not licensed. They're reverse-engineered 'copies'. And, like PTG reamers for .458 SOCOM and several other cartridges, they're 'copies' that have some rather nasty mistakes that can create dangerous situations for anyone that chambers a rifle with those reamers.
If yours works, then more power to you. Give the lottery a shot.


You like the cartridge. We get it. Will you let the original poster have a discussion about the Nosler cartridges, already?


And your "custom" rifle may or may not be worth the cost, depending upon what day of the week the 'smith decided to get black-out drunk and come in hungover. There is a 'World Class' gunsmith 2 miles from me, well renowned for his work with the 550 RNS Magnum and the dozens of his rifles that have been in gun magazines, built either for dangerous game in Africa, or for competition shooters in the states.
I asked him to open an ejection port, and provided a dimensioned drawing specifying exactly what I wanted; along with cutting and crowning a barrel, and drilling and tapping for the new front sight position.

He cut the port free-hand and completely screwed the pooch, by cutting not just the wrong shape, but notably oversized.
Then he cut the barrel to the wrong length, drilled the sight base screw holes the wrong diameter, and used the wrong type of crown.

Oh, but wait, there's more! He also stripped the bluing off of the whole rifle and reblued it to get his preferred color, even though I specifically instructed him not to touch the finish (other than the damage done by opening the port and working on the barrel). And then he tried holding the rifle for ransom (and placing a mechanics' lien on it, through the Sheriff) when I refused to pay for the WRONG work and UNAUTHORIZED work for which he was charging me.
Quality! :rolleyes:

Regardless of whether or not you can trust any given gunsmith... you're missing one very important point. Nosler guarantees the performance of their rifles. They're not Tikkas, or Marlins, or Remingtons, or Savages, that just get slapped together, thrown in a cardboard box with a loose trigger lock that will beat the crap out of the rifle, and shipped out by the pallet. They're tested, individually, before being certified and carefully packed for individual shipment.
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lol someone touched a sore spot with the old Mauser. .. yes I read your lame post, and yes it's A Lazzeroni, lol, and he did allow his reamer to be used, but you know more than most so, back to the OP, what are you contributing besides some story about a gun smith that lives down the street?... if we are sticking to the OP? just a thought, like I said before, which you didn't read because you were getting some custom specs on done 550 gun. are we measuring up now? ... show me yours I'll show you mine. .. [emoji12] still laughing.

so I believe that the Nosler 26 or 28 is. .. blah. they're are better rounds out there. they use powder that we can't get our hands on yet. ..
 
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