.270 and H4831SC velocities

Jack O' Conner wrote letter to editor of Handloaler about the test Ken Water did and he gave his loads for the 270.

His load was 62gr/H-4831,Win Case,CCI mag primer,130gr Nosler bullet and that load was used 3 rifle.

2 rifles were model 70's with 22" barrel @ 3120fps other riffle 3210fps.

1 rifle was custom made with 24" barrel @ 3225fps

If you take H-4831 with long drop tube fill new 270 case and you take 130gr Nosler it won't be that compress. You take long drop tube you can almost get 66gr/H-4831 in new 270 case on the powder/cases I have.
 
I'm using Winchester cases. So far, they look good relatively speaking. I know they don't have the reputation they used to have but they're working good this time.
 
I
Let's just paste this over here:
Well you are already at or very near the limit. You could keep adding half a grain at a time and just stop at 3,200 fps. Going for the limits is best done in the warmest weather expected to be encountered in the field; I'm sure you know why. The 270 Winchester delivers it's maximum performance with 150 grain bullets. The 150's will even shoot flatter at truly long range. With those 130 grain bullets you are using, if it were me, I would just settle for accuracy loads and mild practice loads. And then, step right up to The 150 Sierra GK and Nosler Partition bullets, load them as long as the magazine and/ or the rifling dictates and get a selection of slow burning powders and find an accurate load running near 3,000 fps. The likely powders will all be extruded and the list will probably include H-4831, H-1000, IMR-7828, Reloder 22, and Norma MRP. If you just happen to find some WWII surplus H-4831 or Norma N205 at a gun show, check it visually for quality. If it looks good, then smell it. A faint hint of acetone is OK but if it smells like vinegar, it's bad. There should be no red dust. If it checks out OK, I buy it if the price is acceptable. Keep in mind that accuracy testing at one hundred yards is meaningless in a rifle that is expected to take game at 300 yards and beyond. A lot of loads that look promising at 100 yards get destabilized before they get to 300. A load might do 1 inch at 100 yards But blow out to 12 or 16 inches at 300 for 5 shot groups. I've seen it so much I now expect it until proven otherwise. I hope I have been helpful. Pathfinder

P.S. Remember, everyone, you reload at your own risk. I am NOT advocating that people should feel free to exceed published maximum loads. You can do anything you want, even if it's dangerous. It's all just numbers until someone gets hurt or worse. A paper target and a game animal will not be counting your muzzle velocity. Be wise and be safe. I can not be responsible for others choices. Using older powders is a risk I am sometimes willing to take for myself. That doesn't mean others should do likewise.
 
Good perspective. Although my Chrony read my hottest 4831 load differently the next day, it averaged upper 3100s the first day and grouped a .8" horizontal string with no space between the 4 holes. I'm going to test it some more for consistency and rest there. I highly doubt there's another accuracy node higher up that would be safe. Probably not another one at all with my chosen components. Plus I'm not in high elevation. This load may very well chrono consistently over 3200 in a different altitude. That's pretty much the max potential of this cartridge anyway which I can be pleased with.
 
Here's another thought: Since you apparently seem to have a near maximum chamber, like my rifle, if you neck size only, you will find that your finished ammo will not even chamber in another 270 with a smaller chamber. This can be a bad thing, or, a very good thing. If you are loading over book-maximum a load that happens to be perfectly safe in your rifle, it would be good if it wouldn't fit in another rifle that it wouldn't be safe in. If you are loading for more than one rifle in the same caliber you will want to do a full-length sizing of the cases and use a load that will be safe in all rifles without any doubts about it.
My own 270 has a larger chamber and maximum listed loads shoot substantially slower in my rifle than they, "should". The only exeption, ever, was one lot of H-450 that was way faster than another lot of the, "same powder". My brother had a pre-64 model 70 in 270. His fired cases would easily chamber in my 270, but he could not even come close to closing his bolt over one of my fired cases. He had worked up a load that went over the red line in his rifle as upon ejection of the fired cases, about half of them had the primers fall right out into the action. It wasn't over the book maximum but it was right there. The same load was entirely safe and mild in my rifle. His barrel had been cut to 20" to be handier in a saddle scabbard. Yet it still shot every load faster than the same ammo in my 24" barrel. This is why reloaders should start their load workup with the recommended starting charge. Perhaps a particular rifle has a well enough known and documented pattern of performance to be considered an exception to that rule, ( like my rifle). But even then you can run into a situation like that weird lot of H-450. I'm sure that none of us ever really want to blow a gasket at 75,000 psi. But we need to think about that kind of possibility if we are going to reload. I have a pet load that I have shared the details of with others. But one thing I refrain from mentioning is how much of that wonder powder I use because it's a fairly hot load in my rifle and I know it would be too hot for some rifles. I wouldn't even run it that fast myself if it weren't so darned accurate.
 
I full length size but use Redding competition shell holders. When I felt resistance when chambering the sized case, I went to the next .002 taller shell holder. My brass fits nice and snug but chambers easily.

I have considered using a magnum primer since I have a compressed load of such a slow powder. I tested a Fed 215 mag primer in a 60.5 charge of H4831. There was no change in accuracy or velocity or pressure signs when compared to the same charge with a standard 210 primer. I'm not convinced they make as drastic of a change as some believe.
 
I use magnum primers with ball powders and standard primers for all other powders. With heavy charges of slow burners like H-4831, it's worth a try to experiment with magnum primers. I use CCI and Federal primers almost exclusively in rifle loads. Both companies make match grade primers. I have never had a misfire with those primers.
 
An old but good thread, so I guess I'm going to pump some life back into it or not. I shoot 150g Nosler Partitions and get just over 3000 fps out of my mid-60s vintage Remington BDL with a 22" barrel and have been for more years than I like to admit. It shoots sub 1" 3 shot groups. I don't shoot 5 shot groups getting too old and shaky for that. I use Remington brass, neck sized only (so cases have a tad more capacity), Federal 215 (magnum primers) and more H4831 than most of the loads stated here for 130g bullets. In my 50 year old manuals it lists my loads as max. No cratered or loose primers, or undue web wear, or sticky extraction even in 100 degree heat. I get 10 reloads per case then I throw them out no matter how good the cases look. Only been doing this since the late 60s ... :) Killed a lot of elk, deer, javelina and bear with that load.

My sons and I love our 270s.

Best Regards,

Chuck
 
That was fun load development. I forgot all the great information posted by all these members. This thread should be helpful for anyone getting into loading the .270 for the first time.

At the time, I had intentions to load the Hornady Interbond but it was unavailable so I decided on the SGK even though in the past I had convinced myself to not use bullets without a polymer tip. Glad I did. They shoot so well.
 
As the OP has opened this up to some comment on the load, I am going to do so.

I don't begin to see the need to push those kind of velocities. Game will be no more dead. I don't read you have looked at the base for wipe signs.

So now I really don't think the thread has anything to offer anyone unless you into hot rodding loads. In that case some of hte 25s etc that can get up around 4500 fps are the ticket.

Any hunting gun that gets 1 MOA is doing just fine regardless of speed. Louis and Clark hunted their way across half or more of the US with an air rifle.

Speed gets you no real affect unless you shoot regularly at 600-800 yards, it might keep it super sonic.

I found a nice load for our 270 at about 75-85% of the max listed and that is plenty good. If a 6.5 up in the 2500 fps area can kill a moose (140 grain bullet that splits the 270 130 to 150 bullet range) , then a 270 up in that same area with a heavier bullets needs 3200 fps instead of a mere 2800?
 
RC20 said:
I don't begin to see the need to push those kind of velocities. Game will be no more dead.
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Why men climb mountains

If you take the time to read the original post #1 you'll find SEHunter already said all that for you. He was careful to explain he was just doing this as a hobby challenge to see if he could do it and to see if he could find any additional accuracy nodes. Lo and behold, he did!

Any number of benchrest shooters have claimed they needed to be at near maximum loads to get the best precision. Others have claimed they always find the best precision in low to moderate load ranges. So, in the end, it turns out you just have to go find what your particular gun likes.
 
Valid points RC20, I agree that game animals won’t bother to chrono my projectile before they decide to kill over. However, I think it’s hard to argue that posts 12, 16, 23, 25 and others still offer many great nuggets of information. I especially enjoy when members are able to share history of various powders, other components and past contributors to the shooting sports as several of the posters in this thread did.

I wish I had a built and restored 1969 Dodge Charger but I can’t afford it. If I did though, I wouldn’t commute to work in it. Except maybe once every month or two. I’d just drive our spare sedan with a 4 cyl. I do hunt with my .270 but it also dubs as one of my fun to shoot, fun to play with firearms. It really is an enjoyable challenge for me to try to continue to improve performance while maintaining accuracy and functionality. Not the most sophisticated method but I do randomly check for case separation at the web with a bent gem clip. On occasion I’ll cut a case in half for a visual. Mostly for curiosity sake. If I’m not getting flattened primers, loose primer pockets, or sticky bolt lift, I’m not too worried about case separation. Of course you can always get a weak or defective case but that would most likely show its face with commercial level charges as well. Good point though. Never a bad practice to consider safety first.
 
I had an 03a3 rebarrleed with a 24" 1:9" twisted Douglas Premium XX, it loved IMR 4451 and 130 grn Btips from Nosler,at 3115 avg no signs of pressure and extremely accurate.
I've heard for 30 years H4831 was the bread and butter powder for .270 win, I've never found that to be accurate.
I like to pair 140 grn Partitions and N160, the forementioned rifle sent them out at 3052 average, and shot 10 under a quarter at 100 yds.
The 150's I like to pair with Magpro, it's nice.
RL 26 is said to be decent but I can't find any here right now.
 
Man, some of the loads listed here are stout. In my .270 Win, a Sako Finnbear with 24" barrel, I load the 150gr Hornady Interlock FB, with good charge of H4831sc for an avg of 2880-2900 MV over the screens. A bit below max and very accurate in my rifle.
This same load works with Nosler Partition 150 also.
 
Valid points RC20, I agree that game animals won’t bother to chrono my projectile before they decide to kill over. However, I think it’s hard to argue that posts 12, 16, 23, 25 and others still offer many great nuggets of information. I especially enjoy when members are able to share history of various powders, other components and past contributors to the shooting sports as several of the posters in this thread did.

I wish I had a built and restored 1969 Dodge Charger but I can’t afford it. If I did though, I wouldn’t commute to work in it. Except maybe once every month or two. I’d just drive our spare sedan with a 4 cyl. I do hunt with my .270 but it also dubs as one of my fun to shoot, fun to play with firearms. It really is an enjoyable challenge for me to try to continue to improve performance while maintaining accuracy and functionality. Not the most sophisticated method but I do randomly check for case separation at the web with a bent gem clip. On occasion I’ll cut a case in half for a visual. Mostly for curiosity sake. If I’m not getting flattened primers, loose primer pockets, or sticky bolt lift, I’m not too worried about case separation. Of course you can always get a weak or defective case but that would most likely show its face with commercial level charges as well. Good point though. Never a bad practice to consider safety first.
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I get it to some degree, but pushing and living up around max is not where I think most of us live or think we need to be.

Unclenick may feel differently, but it seems that lower velocity alwyas has a node below max (and per other exper5ts there should be another one down low)

I do think you are mixing up cracked cases with velocity.

Mostly in a good chamber its a result of too much setback (the infamous sort of full sized minim shoulder bump back ala .001 to .003 or so)

Shooting out a barrel is no fun as you need a new gun or a new barrel installed, that is something around $800 for non nutted guns (barrel, labor)

My brother shot his 7mm out, he had a hot load it liked, nothing more than the usual few shots before hunting to confirm scope was on, then usually one round per animal.

Then one day what was a steller shooter just quit shooting and he could not get it back.

He never looked for a lower load that would work.

So no I am not a really keen on hot loads and I think most of us are better off backed off. Just an opinion of course.
 
I've heard for 30 years H4831 was the bread and butter powder for .270 win, I've never found that to be accurate.
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It seems to me that 4350 has been the better powder and its what I am shooting though I am down more like 2650 fps with 150 gr bullet.
 
For a modern 22" Bbl'ed .270 Win sporting rifle?

IMR 4831.

With 150 grain flat based bullets like Speer HC or Nosler Partitions - quick enough for a good burn, slow enough for good velocities, dense enough for good accuracy.




Red
 
At one point in my handloading career my goal was to get 3100 fps out of my Rem mod 700 with a 130gr bullet. Since I could not get accuracy to match that attempt I finally gave up. I have shot every available .270 bullet from Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Barnes and Berger, from 100gr to 150gr. Just experimenting. Powders were H4831, H4831sc, H414, IMR 4831, RE22, H4350.

These posts have me planning to look for Norma MRP, but to look for accuracy, not necessarily speed, just for the heck of it.

My bottom line is it depends on what your rifle likes. I sold a Sako Finnbear (sp?) that liked a Remington 130 PSP, nothing else. Got a 1 inch group at 100 yards and a whitetail at 200 yards off hand (when I was younger).

Currently my inventory has the following rifle preferences that give a 1-inch group or less at 100 yards. with the bullets indicated; they do not like any other bullets:

Win Model 70 (lightweight): Speer 130gr FLAT BASE (NOT Boat Tail) H4831 60.0gr

Win Model 70 w/BOSS: Hornady 130gr SST 57.0 gr (100 yd= 0.34") (200yd= 1.098")
(3 shot groups) H414 57.0gr

My Original Rem 700BDL: Hornady 150gr spire (OR RN!!) H4831 56.0gr(Point of impact exactly the same with either bullet at 100 yds)

My newest Rem Mod 700BDL: Hornady 140gr SST H4831 56.0gr

When I started out 42 years ago with my original M700, I had no idea how to pick powders and I learned quickly after using IMR4895 and using a rubber mallet to open the bolt. I also learned something about twist and bullet weight when I tested a 78gr cast .270 bullet and the first (and only) shot went immediately to my left and hit the ground about 35 yards away. A great and fun hobby, certainly because I never got injured.
 
R-17 might be one to consider as its a close kin of the 4350s and is progressive.

Alliant says 54 max gets you 3136 out of a 24 inch barrel with 130 grain. They don't list starting but do say drop 10%. I like the books that give the minimum of course. Hornady in 30-06 for the 168 is a 16% spread though the 10% start low looks to be quite safe.

Some of my view are shaded by how much I shoot and prefer to not have to change a barrel which is costly for most guns but Savage, Remage setup and now some of the chassis guns.
 
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